Indiana....

sturg33 said:
That's right. I'd bet my life savings they wouldn't participate in a polygamous wedding... Is that bigotry?

Not sure why this matters. Also I've been to wedding that was catered by a pizza place... not everyone wants to drop $50K on a wedding, and I don't blame them

That's a really dumb hypothesis in my opinion. And the hatred comes from the LGBT side... who demands you do as they wish or you will pay the price. And I'm curious how much of your own money you've given to cancer and terror charities? It better be the leader of things you spend your money on, or else don't tell others how they can spend theirs.
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1. Polygamy is illegal in the USA. So you have no point. Congrats.

2. It matters, because if their reason to quit was they were a terrible business and wanted publicity, that makes them terrible people.

3. Why is it a dumb hypothesis? I'd expect someone who's critical of parties and their effect on people to not think critically. I can't find any information on the business, but nothing on their Yelp page, facebook page, or anywhere else about catering. Maybe they take special jobs. I don't know. But any place I've been to that caters as well, Yelp and/or facebook lists catering. Seriously I can't think of one I know that caters and advertises catering, that doesn't show up in one of those places. ANd their gofundme was founded by the blaze. Sorry reeks of conspiracy.
 
thethe said:
Just in a crazy scenario lets say a man sleeps with another mans wife.

Should that same man if he owned a business have to serve the guy that effed his wife?
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zitothebrave said:
1. Polygamy is illegal in the USA. So you have no point. Congrats.

2. It matters, because if their reason to quit was they were a terrible business and wanted publicity, that makes them terrible people.

3. Why is it a dumb hypothesis? I'd expect someone who's critical of parties and their effect on people to not think critically. I can't find any information on the business, but nothing on their Yelp page, facebook page, or anywhere else about catering. Maybe they take special jobs. I don't know. But any place I've been to that caters as well, Yelp and/or facebook lists catering. Seriously I can't think of one I know that caters and advertises catering, that doesn't show up in one of those places. ANd their gofundme was founded by the blaze. Sorry reeks of conspiracy.
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1. Sigh. That's not the point, though I'm completely unsurprised you missed it. The point is, for this example (and frankly, don't you support the legalization of polygamy? So it will one day be apt), the baker is refusing the same service for same reason, yet's it's not "discrimination" as you call it. You cool with that?

2. It doesn't matter at all for the purposes of this argument, so you and 57 should stop bringing it up

3. Well, ok then. Case closed!

I understand your completely anti-freedom viewpoint, but at least stay consistent. That's all I ever ask
 
sturg33 said:
1. Sigh. That's not the point, though I'm completely unsurprised you missed it. The point is, for this example (and frankly, don't you support the legalization of polygamy? So it will one day be apt), the baker is refusing the same service for same reason, yet's it's not "discrimination" as you call it. You cool with that?

2. It doesn't matter at all for the purposes of this argument, so you and 57 should stop bringing it up

3. Well, ok then. Case closed!

I understand your completely anti-freedom viewpoint, but at least stay consistent. That's all I ever ask
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1. It is a totally valid point. You're comparing something legal to something illegal. Pick something legal. Like interracial marriage.

2. It does matter cause otherwise it's a sham.

3. Never said it's case closed, just saying, it's fishy.

4. It's not anti-freedom, it's pro-civil liberties.
 
zitothebrave said:
1. It is a totally valid point. You're comparing something legal to something illegal. Pick something legal. Like interracial marriage.

2. It does matter cause otherwise it's a sham.

3. Never said it's case closed, just saying, it's fishy.

4. It's not anti-freedom, it's pro-civil liberties.
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1. What if it were legal? Gay marriage wasn't legal a few years ago. Look where we are now. Polygamy should be legal and one day will be

2. Whether or not they cater weddings regularly means nothing

3. k

4. Getting a cake for a gay wedding is a civil liberty? Does the business owner get any liberties?
 
1. Then it would be a protected civil right.

2. No it means everything.

3. Business owner has the liberty to do business in the public sphere or not.
 
zitothebrave said:
1. Then it would be a protected civil right.

2. No it means everything.

3. Business owner has the liberty to do business in the public sphere or not.
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1. But would it be "discrimination" to refuse that service?

2. It literally means, nothing.

3. So a business owner can never refuse service for any reason??
 
sturg33 said:
1. But would it be "discrimination" to refuse that service?

2. It literally means, nothing.

3. So a business owner can never refuse service for any reason??
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1. Yes. I clearly made that point in my sentence.

2. It means everything if this whole "support" is entirely concocted and not real.

3. They can't refuse service to someone based on prejudicial means.
 
zitothebrave said:
They can't refuse service to someone based on prejudicial means.
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But earlier you said "Business owner has the liberty to do business in the public sphere or not."

So sounds like he can't refuse service to anyone if he wants the liberty of operating in the public sphere.
 
sturg33 said:
What would the prejudice be on a polygamous wedding?
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If you weren't serving a wedding and you work in that industry because you believe polygamy is wrong and polygamy is legal. you're discriminating against a person because of their beliefs.
 
sturg33 said:
But earlier you said "Business owner has the liberty to do business in the public sphere or not."

So sounds like he can't refuse service to anyone if he wants the liberty of operating in the public sphere.
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False. you're simply moving the goal posts. If someone comes into your store and harasses and employee you have 100% cause to kick them out and not serve them. If you have a strict dress code someone doesn't adhere to you can refuse service. If someone does something to warrant you not serving them kick them out. But if you won't serve someone because they're black, gay, Catholic, Irish, etc. then it's not ok. If you work in the realm of weddings, you shouldn't be allowed to not serve a wedding because it's against your morals if you're a public business. If you're a church or a church ran business, that's totally different.
 
So now we are going to force small businesses to do things that they don't want to do? I don't see how that makes sense at all. There are plenty of other businesses that would be happy to serve those that are rejected.
 
thethe said:
So now we are going to force small businesses to do things that they don't want to do? I don't see how that makes sense at all. There are plenty of other businesses that would be happy to serve those that are rejected.
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About 200 years of evidence says no.
 
So you think that someone who was refused a cake becauuse of their sexual preference would not be served elsewhere?
 
thethe said:
So you think that someone who was refused a cake becauuse of their sexual preference would not be served elsewhere?
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I think they can be served elsewhere, but I think repealing key conditions of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is a bad thing in certain parts of this country.
 
zitothebrave said:
If you weren't serving a wedding and you work in that industry because you believe polygamy is wrong and polygamy is legal. you're discriminating against a person because of their beliefs.
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But earlier you said the black guy could refuse the KKK because it's not based on sex, race, or religion... Wouldn't it be based on their beliefs?
 
sturg33 said:
But earlier you said the black guy could refuse the KKK because it's not based on sex, race, or religion... Wouldn't it be based on their beliefs?
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Polygamy as a legal form of marriage is just that. I said the black guy could refuse service to the KKK because is a hate group.

Here's one I see every day, my friend is an atheist, you think he doesn't serve people who don't accept his atheist lifestyle as a wedding photographer? Even if it was financially sound (it isn't as he's in a minority) he wouldn't do it because it's a violations of someone's civil rights and he'd be wrecked in court for discrimination.
 
zitothebrave said:
Polygamy as a legal form of marriage is just that. I said the black guy could refuse service to the KKK because is a hate group.

Here's one I see every day, my friend is an atheist, you think he doesn't serve people who don't accept his atheist lifestyle as a wedding photographer? Even if it was financially sound (it isn't as he's in a minority) he wouldn't do it because it's a violations of someone's civil rights and he'd be wrecked in court for discrimination.
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A wedding is not "protected"

And your friend should be able to do whatever he wants
 
If your job is as a member of the wedding industry (yes there's an industry) you cannot discriminate on someone because of race, etc.

It's a clause established by the Civil Rights Act and held up by the Supreme Court. Once marriage equality is added therer will be legal ramifications.
 
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