Indians show how to gut your farm system in one day

rico43

rico43

<B>Director of Minor League Reports</B>
The Tribe is all-in with Miller and Lucroy. Assuming Lucroy OKs trade (why wouldn't he?), he is the toll.

According to MLB.com, the Yankees are getting the Indians' No. 1 prospect (Georgia native Frazier), No. 4 (Sheffield) and No. 30 (Heller).

Brewers are getting No. 6 (Mejia), No. 12 (Chang), and No. 22 (Allen).

Braves equivalents (again using MLB.com ratings, not mine) that would equal:

Swanson, Allard, Dykstra for Miller

Soroka, Muller (not eligible to trade), Gant for Lucroy. Subbing out Fried (No. 11) those would be hard deals to swallow for rental players.
 
rico43 said:
The Tribe is all-in with Miller and Lucroy. Assuming Lucroy OKs trade (why wouldn't he?), he is the toll.

According to MLB.com, the Yankees are getting the Indians' No. 1 prospect (Georgia native Frazier), No. 4 (Sheffield) and No. 30 (Heller).

Brewers are getting No. 6 (Mejia), No. 12 (Chang), and No. 22 (Allen).

Braves equivalents (again using MLB.com ratings, not mine) that would equal:

Swanson, Allard, Dykstra for Miller

Soroka, Muller (not eligible to trade), Gant for Lucroy. Subbing out Fried (No. 11) those would be hard deals to swallow for rental players.
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the Yankees are the clear winner of this year's trade deadline especially given how comparatively little the Pirates got for Melancon.

The Indians have more than one year of control for both of these guys.

I really wish Atlanta has traded Vizcaino in this climate. Unfortunate injury.
 
rico43 said:
The Tribe is all-in with Miller and Lucroy. Assuming Lucroy OKs trade (why wouldn't he?), he is the toll.

According to MLB.com, the Yankees are getting the Indians' No. 1 prospect (Georgia native Frazier), No. 4 (Sheffield) and No. 30 (Heller).

Brewers are getting No. 6 (Mejia), No. 12 (Chang), and No. 22 (Allen).

Braves equivalents (again using MLB.com ratings, not mine) that would equal:

Swanson, Allard, Dykstra for Miller

Soroka, Muller (not eligible to trade), Gant for Lucroy. Subbing out Fried (No. 11) those would be hard deals to swallow for rental players.
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While they are rentals given Cleveland's history of payroll constraints, it's important to note that each player has at least a year and a half left of control. Indians could theoretically trade them again this winter or next trade deadline and likely recoup much of the prospect value lost.
 
Southcack77 said:
the Yankees are the clear winner of this year's trade deadline especially given how comparatively little the Pirates got for Melancon.

The Indians have more than one year of control for both of these guys.

I really wish Atlanta has traded Vizcaino in this climate. Unfortunate injury.
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In two days, the yankees have rebuilt with 2 RP's better then we have in two years. They went for quality over quantity and landed two potential studs close to the bigs in Clint Frazier and Gleyber Torres.
 
emk418 said:
In two days, the yankees have rebuilt with 2 RP's better then we have in two years. They went for quality over quantity and landed two potential studs close to the bigs in Clint Frazier and Gleyber Torres.
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Also important and very diferent than us

they focused on Hitters not pitchers when it came to the prospects they got back.
 
I believe that Coppy really believes they will be competing for something next year but without opening up the checkbook big time and trading a lot of prospects I just don't see it. This rebuild has been very average outside of the Miller trade. Seeing other teams get all these high end guys for relief pitchers makes me question the FO. I know our farm system was barren but you always go quality over quantity. Always. The Yanks have gotten a better return on 2 relief pitchers than we did for our best players outside of the Miller deal. Crazy.
 
Hudson2 said:
We should without a doubt have JT on the market right now. If Miller is bringing back that kind of haul then Julio should mop up and complete this rebuild.
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Truth. I understand the FO wants to put butts in the seat next year for the new park, but I feel the franchise would be better off as a whole if they traded JT, Viz, Markakis, etc by tomorrow (or by Aug 31 in Nick's case) to complete the rebuild. This team may compete for a wild card spot next year, but it's certainly no guarantee. On the other hand, it's no guarantee that prospects you get for these players will pan out, but it's a risk I would take.

Besides, if the FO wanted to make a splash, they would trade and get great prospects for JT now, and then you could dip into the well and acquire a true #1 pitcher in the offseason because you have built the well and have enough assets to trade.
 
Hudson2 said:
I believe that Coppy really believes they will be competing for something next year but without opening up the checkbook big time and trading a lot of prospects I just don't see it.
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I think the plan is to open the checkbook but not trade prospects. And to open the checkbook without having the risk of very long-term deals. The Kemp trade is an example. McCann would be something similar. And in the FA market I think we'll go after the guys without qualifying offers. Like David Freese. It is a sensible plan. Hope they execute it. It will improve the team near-term without costing us flexibility long-term.
 
Tho Lucroy vetoed, this would give them 2 years of realistic ability to win a title.

I dont like the Miller trade mainly bc hes a reliever, but the Lucroy trade would have been a no brainer.
 
nsacpi said:
I think the plan is to open the checkbook but not trade prospects. And to open the checkbook without having the risk of very long-term deals. The Kemp trade is an example. McCann would be something similar. And in the FA market I think we'll go after the guys without qualifying offers. Like David Freese. It is a sensible plan. Hope they execute it. It will improve the team near-term without costing us flexibility long-term.
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And that's a plan that I approve of, but we aren't going to compete for anything next year going that route (which I have no issues with myself).
 
auyushu said:
And that's a plan that I approve of, but we aren't going to compete for anything next year going that route (which I have no issues with myself).
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Yeah let's not pretend Kemp, Mac and Freese makes this team an 80 game winner next year. They will still be bad, but at least the "names" make it look like they are trying to win when the average fan sees it happening.

Chip, for example, thinks the Kemp trade was a small miracle because he's an idiot that doesn't understand the financial side of the game. Most fans are even dumber than him.
 
Enscheff said:
They will still be bad, but at least the "names" make it look like they are trying to win when the average fan sees it happening.
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Yep, I can actually get behind trading for Kemp and Mac (assuming we trade little to the Yanks) because they are the sort of moves that will look good on paper to the casual fan and allow the front office to act like they are improving the team without hurting the future. We'll probably be at best a low 70s win team with those two and Freese/Prado as a FA pickup, but the FO gets to semi-appease the casual fanbase and the rebuild stays on track. It's far better than the alternative to me.
 
Hudson2 said:
I believe that Coppy really believes they will be competing for something next year but without opening up the checkbook big time and trading a lot of prospects I just don't see it. This rebuild has been very average outside of the Miller trade. Seeing other teams get all these high end guys for relief pitchers makes me question the FO. I know our farm system was barren but you always go quality over quantity. Always. The Yanks have gotten a better return on 2 relief pitchers than we did for our best players outside of the Miller deal. Crazy.
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You realize that Chapman and Miller are arguably better players than anyone we traded not named Kimbrel, right???
 
for those who keep saying trade Teheran I want to know, which would you rather have of the following list 2017 for and beyond

pitcher 1. Innings 134.2 WAR 3.9 whip 0.97 ERA 2.81 contract through 2020 with option 37.3M or 9.325M per year age 25

pitcher 2. Innings 127.2 WAR 4.4 whip 0.99 ERA 2.68 contract through (has opt outs) through 2023 150M or 21.5M per year age 28

pitcher 3. Innings 147.1 WAR 3.6 whip 1.07 ERA 2.63 contract through 2021 109M or 21.833 M per year age 30

pitcher 4. Innings 133.1 WAR 3.9 whip 1.26 ERA 2.84 contract through 2019 70.5M or 23.5M per year age 32

pitcher 5. Innings 148.2 WAR 4.5 whip 0.94 ERA 2.84 contract through 2021 170.7M or 34.1M per year. age 32

pitcher 1 Julio Teheran

pitcher 2 Steven Strasburg

pitcher 3 Johnny Cueto

pitcher 4 Cole Hamels

pitcher 5 Max Scherzer

explain to me how you duplicate JT's numbers for the money we owe him? He is better than some of you seem to give credit for, maybe he is not the strikeout guy some of these others are, but the numbers speak for them self and he is ONLY 25 not even to his prime!
 
depley said:
for those who keep saying trade Teheran I want to know, which would you rather have of the following list 2017 for and beyond

pitcher 1. Innings 134.2 WAR 3.9 whip 0.97 ERA 2.81 contract through 2020 with option 37.3M or 9.325M per year age 25

pitcher 2. Innings 127.2 WAR 4.4 whip 0.99 ERA 2.68 contract through (has opt outs) through 2023 150M or 21.5M per year age 28

pitcher 3. Innings 147.1 WAR 3.6 whip 1.07 ERA 2.63 contract through 2021 109M or 21.833 M per year age 30

pitcher 4. Innings 133.1 WAR 3.9 whip 1.26 ERA 2.84 contract through 2019 70.5M or 23.5M per year age 32

pitcher 5. Innings 148.2 WAR 4.5 whip 0.94 ERA 2.84 contract through 2021 170.7M or 34.1M per year. age 32

pitcher 1 Julio Teheran

pitcher 2 Steven Strasburg

pitcher 3 Johnny Cueto

pitcher 4 Cole Hamels

pitcher 5 Max Scherzer

explain to me how you duplicate JT's numbers for the money we owe him? He is better than some of you seem to give credit for, maybe he is not the strikeout guy some of these others are, but the numbers speak for them self and he is ONLY 25 not even to his prime!
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The reasoning behind trading him is to get max value for him, not to trade him just to trade him. With the prieces closers are getting, what would someone pay for a #2 type starter that is cost controlled? There is risk there, but if you can get a return much better than the return for Miller/Chapman, its a no brainer. Personally, i think JT is at peak value right now.
 
gilesfan said:
The reasoning behind trading him is to get max value for him, not to trade him just to trade him. With the prieces closers are getting, what would someone pay for a #2 type starter that is cost controlled? There is risk there, but if you can get a return much better than the return for Miller/Chapman, its a no brainer. Personally, i think JT is at peak value right now.
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Exactly. I don't doubt his talent. I DO worry about him breaking down. Strike while the iron is hot because it will probably NEVER be near this hot again.
 
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