International News, Rumor and Signing Thread

[KB21]

Yeah, that's true. I rate Maitan way higher than I would Moniak. I don't mind the unknown aspect of it, I tend to weigh the upside more.

Back in 2009, there was a 16 year old player that was getting hyped up as "The Next Big Thing" baseball prospect. That was Bryce Harper. How many would have taken the 18 year old more developed high school guy over Harper at that time?

 

[smootness]

Moniak does not have a 70 hit tool. Some may see that as his ceiling, but I haven't even seen that grade on his upside.

 

[praeceps93]

Moniak does not have a 70 hit tool. Some may see that as his ceiling, but I haven't even seen that grade on his upside.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/confidence-composure-define-mickey-moniak/ Two SoCal scouts project it at a 70 grade; others project it at a 60 grade. I lean towards the latter, personally.

 

[chop2chip]

Moniak does not have a 70 hit tool. Some may see that as his ceiling, but I haven't even seen that grade on his upside.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/confidence-composure-define-mickey-moniak/

Hudson Belinski dropped a 70 hit projection on him, and before you say "that's just a projection" well all scouting tool grades are that. If we are going off present tools Maitan would be like a 30.

EDIT: I see praeceps already linked this article.

 

[chop2chip]

Back in 2009, there was a 16 year old player that was getting hyped up as "The Next Big Thing" baseball prospect. That was Bryce Harper. How many would have taken the 18 year old more developed high school guy over Harper at that time?

And Bryce Harper was a big risk (albeit smaller one than Maitan because he played in extremely competitive travel leagues). Bryce Harper is an exception not the rule.

 

[KB21]

And Bryce Harper was a big risk (albeit smaller one than Maitan because he played in extremely competitive travel leagues). Bryce Harper is an exception not the rule.

Well, here's the thing. If you are too concerned about risk, then you are never going to land a Bryce Harper type of talent. Bryce Harper type talents don't come out of the college game. Chipper Jones type talents don't come out of the college game. While that's really not what this discussion is about, the concern over risk and rating a player lower because he is a higher risk is what makes you pass on great talents to take safer talents.

With Maitan, this is a kid that has been billed by scouts who have watched him from the time he was 12 as the next big thing when it comes to international prospects, and this was when he was 14. This kid is a generational talent. You don't take a Mickey Moniak over a generational talent.

 

[chop2chip]

Well, here's the thing. If you are too concerned about risk, then you are never going to land a Bryce Harper type of talent. Bryce Harper type talents don't come out of the college game. Chipper Jones type talents don't come out of the college game. While that's really not what this discussion is about, the concern over risk and rating a player lower because he is a higher risk is what makes you pass on great talents to take safer talents.

With Maitan, this is a kid that has been billed by scouts who have watched him from the time he was 12 as the next big thing when it comes to international prospects, and this was when he was 14. This kid is a generational talent. You don't take a Mickey Moniak over a generational talent.

Where have I said we shouldn't sign Maitan?

The difference between Maitan and Moniak isn't simply just risk vs reward. It's a 16 year old being handed 6 million dollars and being brought state side that can't speak English, hasn't faced competition relative to what 16 year old Americans have, he's lightly scouted relative to Americans his age, his body is still developing, etc.

And it's not like Moniak is some low ceiling player. He's got a lot of projection left as well.

 

[bravos4evr]

Where have I said we shouldn't sign Maitan?

The difference between Maitan and Moniak isn't simply just risk vs reward. It's a 16 year old being handed 6 million dollars and being brought state side that can't speak English, hasn't faced competition relative to what 16 year old Americans have, he's lightly scouted relative to Americans his age, his body is still developing, etc.

And it's not like Moniak is some low ceiling player. He's got a lot of projection left as well.

I look at Moniak and I see a ceiling of Dustin Pedroia. I look at Maitan and I see a ceiling of Miguel Cabrera. Both are fine players to be comped to, but I know which of the two I prefer.

 

[bravescountry]

Who has said that? I might've missed it, but I haven't seen one person.

Lots of sources actually- most notably, Mayo and Callis of MLB said that if Maitan was eligible they and many scouts they had talked with would take Maitan before any HS prospect of the 2016 draft class. Also, BA said that Maitan would be a top prospect in the draft, but he wouldn't be taken #1 bc he hasn't really been in many games (bc intl prospect), but they did say that they would rank him pretty high among draft prospects with skill tools alone.

 

[bravescountry]

I look at Moniak and I see a ceiling of Dustin Pedroia. I look at Maitan and I see a ceiling of Miguel Cabrera. Both are fine players to be comped to, but I know which of the two I prefer.

One thing- why do you see Pedroia- they don't even play the same position....unless you mean ceiling of his bat.

 

[chop2chip]

I look at Moniak and I see a ceiling of Dustin Pedroia. I look at Maitan and I see a ceiling of Miguel Cabrera. Both are fine players to be comped to, but I know which of the two I prefer.

That is why I hate comparables. First of all, Pedroia and Moniak don't even play the same position. Secondly, Maitan was compared to Miguel Cabrera when Cabrera was 16 years old and 100 lbs lighter. Basically every single that could have went right went right for Miguel Cabrera. I don't think even think 16 year old Miguel Cabrera would be compared with present day Miguel Cabrera. That's how unfair that comparison (more accurately, expectation) is for Maitan.

 

[bravescountry]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/confidence-composure-define-mickey-moniak/ Two SoCal scouts project it at a 70 grade; others project it at a 60 grade. I lean towards the latter, personally.

Let's just take MLB's scouting grades
Moniak: 55 hit(let's just say 60 though), 45 power, 60 run, 50 arm, and 60 field
Maitan: 60 hit, 60 power, 40 run (although it says he is a plus runner), 70 arm, 50 field
COMPARISON: Both have good hit tools (idk who's better though), Maitan has more power, Moniak is a bit faster, Maitan has a better arm, and Moniak is a bit better with the defense.
CONCLUSION: Let's just say they're equivalent to each other.

 

[chop2chip]

Lots of sources actually- most notably, Mayo and Callis of MLB said that if Maitan was eligible they and many scouts they had talked with would take Maitan before any HS prospect of the 2016 draft class. Also, BA said that Maitan would be a top prospect in the draft, but he wouldn't be taken #1 bc he hasn't really been in many games (bc intl prospect), but they did say that they would rank him pretty high among draft prospects with skill tools alone.

Link? I listened to Callis' inteview with Bill from two days ago and he said the exact opposite.

 

[bravescountry]

That is why I hate comparables. First of all, Pedroia and Moniak don't even play the same position. Secondly, Maitan was compared to Miguel Cabrera when Cabrera was 16 years old and 100 lbs lighter. Basically every single that could have went right went right for Miguel Cabrera. I don't think even think 16 year old Miguel Cabrera would be compared with present day Miguel Cabrera. That's how unfair that comparison (more accurately, expectation) is for Maitan.

Aren't all comparisons of a player what we kind of want and expect them to become?

 

[bravescountry]

Link? I listened to Callis' inteview with Bill from two days ago and he said the exact opposite.

He said so in one of the podcasts before the draft. Which one did you listen to?

 

[chop2chip]

Aren't all comparisons of a player what we kind of want and expect them to become?

Yes and that's why they are stupid. It gets to the point where the players being used as comparison are then compared against each other. How does that even make sense? It's lazy analysis, IMO.

 

[chop2chip]

He said so in one of the podcasts before the draft. Which one did you listen to?

http://www.scout.com/mlb/braves/story/1678633-jim-callis-interview

I believe it was in part III

 

[bravos4evr]

One thing- why do you see Pedroia- they don't even play the same position....unless you mean ceiling of his bat.

I mean the type of player and hitter. scrappy, lots of gap power, 10-15 home run potential, good on the basepaths....etc

Maitan's swing and power tools look like a guy who could be a #3 hitter on a championship team if he develops. Maybe he won't, but you don't see his kind of tools in a player that young very often.

 

[bravescountry]

Yes and that's why they are stupid. It gets to the point where the players being used as comparison are then compared against each other. How does that even make sense? It's lazy analysis, IMO.

Well, IDK about all of them- but some comps are actually really good. But its only the ones where they use tool analysis of pitches, pitch movement, swing styles, and stuff like that to compare players.

 

[bravescountry]

I mean the type of player and hitter. scrappy, lots of gap power, 10-15 home run potential, good on the basepaths....etc

Maitan's swing and power tools look like a guy who could be a #3 hitter on a championship team if he develops. Maybe he won't, but you don't see his kind of tools in a player that young very often.

OFC you don't see his type of talent much.. I like Maitan and I can't wait till we sign him. I just think Pedroia is a bad comp (which you made) for Moniak.. very bad comp.