Is Free Speech Under Attack in this Country?
- Thread starter sturg33
- Start date
acesfull86
Well-known member
These are the places where DeSantis loses me
sturg33
I
Boooohooooo
Good article on this topic. Actually, their support goes beyond just Pro-Palestine but actually are Pro-Hamas. DeSantis will probably win if this is challenged. https://jewishinsider.com/2023/10/florida-gov-ron-desantis-hamas-rallies-campus-antisemitism/
Tapate50
Well-known member
Some people really don’t like Fweedom.
I was against it until I heard the full story. The media as usual wasn't telling us everything.
Yes. There's a reason why you don't see KKK chapters on colleges. Supporting terrorism is especially forbidden in Florida by law. Violent speech isn't protected.
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Tapate50
Well-known member
Encouragement of violence against another group should not be tolerated
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The quotes in the article are interesting.
Alan Dershowitz, a Harvard University Law School professor emeritus who has represented high-profile clients such as O.J. Simpson, told JI the measure would likely survive a First Amendment challenge as long as the university does not “apply a double standard.”
“A single standard must prevail on university campuses,” Dershowitz continued. “Student groups that support Hamas should be treated the way a student group that supported the Ku Klux Klan or supported the rape of women, or the killing of gays should be treated.”
Dershowitz added that his own view is that all such groups should be permitted on campus. “But, if a school would not permit the Klan, Nazis, sexists or homophobes to form groups, then the same rule should apply to supporters of Hamas’ rapes, murders and kidnapping.”
hope none of y'all are homophobes or sexists...or transphobic
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Marc Stern, chief legal officer at the American Jewish Committee, expects there to be litigation around DeSantis’ ban of SJP. “How the challenge comes out will very much depend on what [language] comes out. There are arguments, which are significant, that would allow colleges to say [statements like] ‘kill the Jews’ are disruptive and beyond the pale. With more political [statements] the courts will have a tougher time.”
Stern noted that questions surrounding First Amendment rights are “interesting and not unimportant” but also can be “a distraction” to the issue of university administrations staying silent.
“University presidents are not prohibited by the First Amendment from speaking out strongly against the ‘kill the Jews’ stuff we’re seeing from SJP,” Stern told JI.
“Imagine on our modern campuses somebody saying white men have the right to rape women of color. There would be outrage. Hamas does it and there’s not a peep. Before getting lost in the First Amendment debate, the question is where has everybody been? Some [university] presidents called people out. Most have avoided doing so and that leads to a moral ambiguity that has no place on a college campus, and it leaves Jewish students vulnerable.”
Stern said the argument that university administration that criticize conduct as antisemitic equates to denying Palestinians freedom of speech is “constitutional gibberish” and “nonsense that needs to be called out.”
“The fact that a university official criticizes speech is entirely how we expect doctrines of freedom of speech to work. The answer to speech is more speech.”
I think this last quote from Stern has it right.
There is an additional issue which has to do with chapters on campus affiliated with national organizations. Do the chapters get banned based on what its leaders at the national level or what members of a different chapter on a different campus do or say. I would hate for all chapters of Young Republicans to be banned based on what some treason weasels did on January 6.
Stern noted that questions surrounding First Amendment rights are “interesting and not unimportant” but also can be “a distraction” to the issue of university administrations staying silent.
“University presidents are not prohibited by the First Amendment from speaking out strongly against the ‘kill the Jews’ stuff we’re seeing from SJP,” Stern told JI.
“Imagine on our modern campuses somebody saying white men have the right to rape women of color. There would be outrage. Hamas does it and there’s not a peep. Before getting lost in the First Amendment debate, the question is where has everybody been? Some [university] presidents called people out. Most have avoided doing so and that leads to a moral ambiguity that has no place on a college campus, and it leaves Jewish students vulnerable.”
Stern said the argument that university administration that criticize conduct as antisemitic equates to denying Palestinians freedom of speech is “constitutional gibberish” and “nonsense that needs to be called out.”
“The fact that a university official criticizes speech is entirely how we expect doctrines of freedom of speech to work. The answer to speech is more speech.”
I think this last quote from Stern has it right.
There is an additional issue which has to do with chapters on campus affiliated with national organizations. Do the chapters get banned based on what its leaders at the national level or what members of a different chapter on a different campus do or say. I would hate for all chapters of Young Republicans to be banned based on what some treason weasels did on January 6.
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
My view is that people speaking out in support of Hamas should be criticized and ostracized. But they should not be banned. From campus or any other public space. Unless they were doing something that disrupts the proper functioning of the university. We want our young people to be strong enough to be able to withstand the presence of others with whom they strongly disagree.
I recently read an account of a professor at my alma mater who was pro-Nazi. During the period Hitler was in power. He retired from teaching in 1935 but continued to be outspoken in his support of Hitler and his regime. In 1938 he received the Merit Cross of the German Eagle for his outspoken support of the Nazis. From Adolph Hitler. He lost all his friends. People who were close to him stopped talking to him. In 1946 he spoke out about the widespread starvation in Germany. One of his colleagues replied that the situation in Germany was indeed unfortunate but that the allies had to give priority to the countries (and he listed all of them) that had been plundered and victimized by Hitler.
Things are never quite as new and unprecedented as we think they are.
I recently read an account of a professor at my alma mater who was pro-Nazi. During the period Hitler was in power. He retired from teaching in 1935 but continued to be outspoken in his support of Hitler and his regime. In 1938 he received the Merit Cross of the German Eagle for his outspoken support of the Nazis. From Adolph Hitler. He lost all his friends. People who were close to him stopped talking to him. In 1946 he spoke out about the widespread starvation in Germany. One of his colleagues replied that the situation in Germany was indeed unfortunate but that the allies had to give priority to the countries (and he listed all of them) that had been plundered and victimized by Hitler.
Things are never quite as new and unprecedented as we think they are.
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Tapate50
Well-known member
Well Harvard is a third rate institution by your account and has been for a while now.
Curious why you believe his opinion matters.
And “Kill the Jews” speaks for itself.
Who said this is new and unprecedented?
sturg33
I
Imagine if they walked around the capitol stating the election was stolen
