Is it too much to ask?

dak said:
What I'm implying is that he's currently performing like a back-end MLB SP, while having the upside of something more than that if the stars align. He's also shown year-over-year improvement. Taking all these factors in consideration, I think he's on the path to earning a 2017 spot.

Also, have all the guys you listed flopped? That seems a little harsh, but I guess depends on one's expectations. I think Folty and Newcomb have met expectations. The others have not progressed as well as the organization had hoped.
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I think they have all flopped this year. It doesn't mean they can't make strides next year though. They all certainly have the talent to do so.

I have a feeling Folty is going to be the next Jeff Samardzija or Nathan Eovaldi. Guys with excellent stuff that everyone was waiting to turn into a TOR guy, but ultimately settles in as a 3 or 4. I predict no less than 5,000 posts about Folty over the next 5 years that contain some version of, "he would be an Ace if he could only...".

The good news is guys like that tend to bring back disproportionately large returns in trades when compared to their actual production/projections.
 
Enscheff said:
I think they have all flopped this year. It doesn't mean they can't make strides next year though. They all certainly have the talent to do so.

I have a feeling Folty is going to be the next Jeff Samardzija or Nathan Eovaldi. Guys with excellent stuff that everyone was waiting to turn into a TOR guy, but ultimately settles in as a 3 or 4. I predict no less than 5,000 posts about Folty over the next 5 years that contain some version of, "he would be an Ace if he could only...".

The good news is guys like that tend to bring back disproportionately large returns in trades when compared to their actual production/projections.
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Agree. I have thrown out Samardzija before.

I think if you trade folty with 2 years of control left you could get a haul. I was hoping of a blockbuster with the Rockies for their minor 3b and Dahl for Folty and Jenkins type.....but Dahl's way too good now.
 
Newcombe hasn't flopped this year.

I also don't think Sims has flopped.

We probably have a different definition of the term 'flopped'.
 
Preacher said:
Newcombe hasn't flopped this year.

I also don't think Sims has flopped.

We probably have a different definition of the term 'flopped'.
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Sims is walking over 6 guys per 9 and has an era of 7.56 in AAA. What do you believe a pitcher needs to do to "flop?"
 
Preacher said:
Newcombe hasn't flopped this year.

I also don't think Sims has flopped.

We probably have a different definition of the term 'flopped'.
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Umm, Newcomb entered the year as a top 25 prospect and was supposed to be a potential mid-season boost to the rotation. Last year he pitched 136 innings over 3 levels (A, A+, AA) with an ERA of 2.38, a K/BB ratio of 2.2. The knock was he needed to improve his control and cut down on the walks.

This year in AA he has thrown 123 innings with an ERA of 4.10, and a K/BB ratio of 2.08. He is striking out fewer hitters and hasn't improved his walk rates much at all. In the midseason prospect rankings he has dropped outside the top 50, and I assume will be even lower this offseason.

If that's not flopping then I suppose we have dramatically different ideas of what succeeding entails.

Sims hasn't flopped, but only because he wasn't thought of very highly this past offseason anyways.
 
gilesfan said:
Sims is walking over 6 guys per 9 and has an era of 7.56 in AAA. What do you believe a pitcher needs to do to "flop?"
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I'm not a big fan of Sims, but he's done very well after going back to AA. I'd see what he does next year before I'd call him a flop. I'd say his stock went down
 
Chico said:
I'm not a big fan of Sims, but he's done very well after going back to AA. I'd see what he does next year before I'd call him a flop. I'd say his stock went down
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Right, there's a difference between a player's stock going down and a player flopping.
 
Enscheff said:
Umm, Newcomb entered the year as a top 25 prospect and was supposed to be a potential mid-season boost to the rotation. Last year he pitched 136 innings over 3 levels (A, A+, AA) with an ERA of 2.38, a K/BB ratio of 2.2. The knock was he needed to improve his control and cut down on the walks.

This year in AA he has thrown 123 innings with an ERA of 4.10, and a K/BB ratio of 2.08. He is striking out fewer hitters and hasn't improved his walk rates much at all. In the midseason prospect rankings he has dropped outside the top 50, and I assume will be even lower this offseason.

If that's not flopping then I suppose we have dramatically different ideas of what succeeding entails.

Sims hasn't flopped, but only because he wasn't thought of very highly this past offseason anyways.
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I'm thinking someone should label "flop". Having your stock go down isn't "flopping" to me. Andrew Thurman/Zack Bird/Man Ban are guys who flopped to me.
 
Chico said:
I'm thinking someone should label "flop". Having your stock go down isn't "flopping" to me. Andrew Thurman/Zack Bird/Man Ban are guys who flopped to me.
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NO DUDE NEWCOMB IS TERRIBLE DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING? YOU'RE AN IDIOT FOR HAVING THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF OPTIMISM HE'S A BUST.
 
Chico said:
I'm thinking someone should label "flop". Having your stock go down isn't "flopping" to me. Andrew Thurman/Zack Bird/Man Ban are guys who flopped to me.
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Yes, I said flopped this year. Their lack of progress has directly impacted the Braves chances of competing next year and has delayed the rebuild by at least 1 season.

The lack of progress made by the pitchers as a whole is why we now get to see Matt Kemp running around LF next year rather than a real impact player. If Newcomb, Wisler and Folty had shown they were ready to anchor the rotation with Julio in 2017, I think the FO would have acquired someone much better than Kemp for the OF.
 
Enscheff said:
Umm, Newcomb entered the year as a top 25 prospect and was supposed to be a potential mid-season boost to the rotation. Last year he pitched 136 innings over 3 levels (A, A+, AA) with an ERA of 2.38, a K/BB ratio of 2.2. The knock was he needed to improve his control and cut down on the walks.

This year in AA he has thrown 123 innings with an ERA of 4.10, and a K/BB ratio of 2.08. He is striking out fewer hitters and hasn't improved his walk rates much at all. In the midseason prospect rankings he has dropped outside the top 50, and I assume will be even lower this offseason.

If that's not flopping then I suppose we have dramatically different ideas of what succeeding entails.

Sims hasn't flopped, but only because he wasn't thought of very highly this past offseason anyways.
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Comparing just AA statistics, Newk has been better this year. You're much smarter than to be using ERA.
 
Enscheff said:
Yes, I said flopped this year. Their lack of progress has directly impacted the Braves chances of competing next year and has delayed the rebuild by at least 1 season.

The lack of progress made by the pitchers as a whole is why we now get to see Matt Kemp running around LF next year rather than a real impact player. If Newcomb, Wisler and Folty had shown they were ready to anchor the rotation with Julio in 2017, I think the FO would have acquired someone much better than Kemp for the OF.
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So Kemp is what has your panties in a bunch? Does it make you fell better that we tried to get Braun, but he wouldn't waive his right or are you just having one of those days where you want to complain and act irrational about everything?
 
gilesfan said:
Sims is walking over 6 guys per 9 and has an era of 7.56 in AAA. What do you believe a pitcher needs to do to "flop?"
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Sims has also struck out 145 in 127 innings and has a 2.45 ERA as a 22 year old in AA. The control needs to get better, but that's not flopping.
 
chop2chip said:
Comparing just AA statistics, Newk has been better this year. You're much smarter than to be using ERA.
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With that said, I do agree that the Braves were likely hoping for Newcomb to do better this year than he has. I think they are more concerned about the control issues than the stats indicate they should be. Otherwise, it makes little sense why we haven't seen his name floated as a rotation candidate among the 15 hacks we have thrown out there this year.
 
Enscheff said:
Yes, I said flopped this year. Their lack of progress has directly impacted the Braves chances of competing next year and has delayed the rebuild by at least 1 season.

The lack of progress made by the pitchers as a whole is why we now get to see Matt Kemp running around LF next year rather than a real impact player. If Newcomb, Wisler and Folty had shown they were ready to anchor the rotation with Julio in 2017, I think the FO would have acquired someone much better than Kemp for the OF.
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A 'lack of progress' isn't flopping.

Newcombe is still striking guys out at a great rate, doesn't give up HRs and is starting to put together one of his better stretches of pitching.

That's not flopping.
 
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