Is "2017" a huge lie?

Not crazy about the trade, but I don't see how it changes much about what kind of team we can field in 2017 as far as organizational talent. I do think it's fair to say we've taken a bit of a step back on the quality of the 2016 team by penciling in a less productive player at SS.

I agree with those that are concerned about the imbalance between pitching and positional talent. It's not my preference either. I think we're going to see some pitchers traded for positional players though. It'll definitely happen next offseason, and I still think it's likely to happen this offseason.
 
weso1 said:
I think the plan is still 2017. I think we're only on the hook for Teheran, Freeman and Olivera. Then you've got really only Shelby Miller as a big Arb eligible player.

So we'll say the Braves have about 50 Million tied up in 2017 if you count some of the cheaper players like Jace or Mallex. That leaves maybe about 70 million to spend in 2017. The roster is going to look hilariously different in 2017 then it does right now. There's no telling who we could get.

There were a lot of big time offensive players moved last season, so you really don't know what could happen or who might be available.
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70 million doesn't buy you that much anymore. By next offseason it will get you like 9-10 WAR on the open market if that's the route you go.
 
As a reminder, it took a top 25 young left handed pitcher and a top 40 prospect to acquire a 30 year old guy with 0 mL at bats and a massive injury history.
 
sturg33 said:
As a reminder, it took a top 25 young left handed pitcher and a top 40 prospect to acquire a 30 year old guy with 0 mL at bats and a massive injury history.
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That's sort of arbitrary right? Because neither of those two descriptions would belong to Wood or Peraza right now.

You could make the argument that the Braves missed the boat by not trading those two last offseason.
 
Breaking News.. I heard the Braves are working a deal to trade their new ballpark for two Tommy John clinics across the Atl. metro area... More details to come..
 
CJC said:
I have a sinking suspicion that the "building for 2017" is just a smoke screen for tearing down the roster for an extended period time and taking profits from the new Stadium. There are no signs that the team is anything but a last place team over the next two years.
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Agreed a million percent. Winning anytime soon isn't on their minds. Money is priority.
 
chop2chip said:
That's sort of arbitrary right? Because neither of those two descriptions would belong to Wood or Peraza right now.

You could make the argument that the Braves missed the boat by not trading those two last offseason.
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Alex Wood ranks 30th in FIP over last two seasons, and I recall it being closer to 20 at the time of the deal.

Not sure what dispute is about Peraza...
 
chop2chip said:
That's sort of arbitrary right? Because neither of those two descriptions would belong to Wood or Peraza right now.

You could make the argument that the Braves missed the boat by not trading those two last offseason.
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Peraza may slip some (or a lot) in the rankings but Baseball Amerca had him at #26 in their mid season list about 3 weeks before we traded him.
 
sturg33 said:
As a reminder, it took a top 25 young left handed pitcher and a top 40 prospect to acquire a 30 year old guy with 0 mL at bats and a massive injury history.
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I didn't like the Olivera trade either, but isn't this a little hyperbolic? Law and McDaniel ranked Peraza more around 100 at the time of the trade. Alex Wood is projected to be the 72nd best SP in MLB in 2016.
 
sturg33 said:
Alex Wood ranks 30th in FIP over last two seasons, and I recall it being closer to 20 at the time of the deal.

Not sure what dispute is about Peraza...
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As a starter he has a 3.40 FIP for his career. That's fine, but he's trending downward. Based off the KLaws, Callis's, etc of the world he doesn't hold the same pedigree among talent evaluators that he did before and that's including a general concern about his health, warranted or not.

Peraza isn't a consensus top 25 prospect anymore.

In summary, we didn't really trade a top starter who was under 25 and a top 25 prospect. We traded a starter with injury concerns and declining peripherals and a top 100 prospect. That's quite different.
 
dak said:
I didn't like the Olivera trade either, but isn't this a little hyperbolic? Law and McDaniel ranked Peraza more around 100 at the time of the trade. Alex Wood is projected to be the 72nd best SP in MLB in 2016.
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Exactly.
 
weso1 said:
That would be pretty good though with good pitching and an improved bullpen. I think we'd be competitive.
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It depends who is out there though. With your typical FA signing that may work for a few years but then that player starts to tail off and prevents you from keeping your young players, etc. If you are going to spend that kind of money next offseason then why not do it this offseason (and backload somewhat) to get a Price or Heyward. Two guys who are likely better than anyone available next year and players who look to be good for most of their contracts.
 
chop2chip said:
As a starter he has a 3.40 FIP for his career. That's fine, but he's trending downward. Based off the KLaws, Callis's, etc of the world he doesn't hold the same pedigree among talent evaluators that he did before and that's including a general concern about his health, warranted or not.

Peraza isn't a consensus top 25 prospect anymore.

In summary, we didn't really trade a top starter who was under 25 and a top 25 prospect. We traded a starter with injury concerns and declining peripherals and a top 100 prospect. That's quite different.
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You are selling Peraza short. I've looked at baseball america, mlb.com, baseball prospectus, and Sickels and all listed Peraza from 24-45 on their mid season report. That's about where Peraza was by most evaluators and where the Braves should have been selling him as. He wasn't a conensus top 25 prospect but nobody said that. Top 40? Sure by most accounts he was or right behind it.
 
thewupk said:
You are selling Peraza short. I've looked at baseball america, mlb.com, baseball prospectus, and Sickels and all listed Peraza from 24-45 on their mid season report. That's about where Peraza was by most evaluators and where the Braves should have been selling him as. He wasn't a conensus top 25 prospect but nobody said that. Top 40? Sure by most accounts he was or right behind it.
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Law had him outside of his top 50 on his July 16th list. Kiley McDaniel graded him as a 50FV at the time of the trade which is in the 80-120 range of his top 200. Sure, some like him still, but he doesn't seem like the type of prospect that you build around. More importantly his stock is even lower than it was in July which is what ultimately matters.

He was, in some eyes, borderline top 100. I don't have issues trading borderline top 100 prospects.
 
chop2chip said:
That's sort of arbitrary right? Because neither of those two descriptions would belong to Wood or Peraza right now.

You could make the argument that the Braves missed the boat by not trading those two last offseason.
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Yeah, you probably could.

As for your first sentence, though, I noticed that you made a comment to that effect in the Simmons thread. I think we've been saying this consistently since the Wood/Olivera/Peraza deal . . . it doesn't matter if Peraza busts or if Wood's arm turns into jelly. That trade should only be evaluated for what their value was at the time of the deal. If they both end up stinking, it doesn't vindicate the fact of not getting a return commensurate with their value at the time of the deal.
 
chop2chip said:
Law had him outside of his top 50 on his July 16th list. Kiley McDaniel graded him as a 50FV at the time of the trade which is in the 80-120 range of his top 200. Sure, some like him still, but he doesn't seem like the type of prospect that you build around. More importantly his stock is even lower than it was in July which is what ultimately matters.

He was, in some eyes, borderline top 100. I don't have issues trading borderline top 100 prospects.
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Man, that is some serious spinning.
 
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