January 6th insurrection thread...
- Thread starter goldfly
- Start date
There are some fair points here, but I just can’t ever really get behind not allowing someone to post bail before their trial, because as of right now he’s not been convicted of any crimes for this yet. I have no sympathy for the guy, I just don’t like the idea of getting behind a broken system because it worked out in a way I might find more favorable. In the future, similarly severe offenses will lead to the same treatment, and I’d just rather not stand on the sideline this time before it happens to someone who aligns closer with me politically.
striker42
Well-known member
The judge is still wrong. You cannot be punished for a crime you've not yet been convicted of. You actually have a constitutional right to reasonable bail.
There are times when you can be denied bail but the reasons cannot be punishment for the crime you're charged with. You must, procedurally, be presumed innocent of that crime. Bail can be denied if you present a danger to the community or if you're a flight risk.
Flight risk is usually mitigated by turning in your passport so that's not usually the reason for denying bail.
As for being a danger, again, you enjoy a presumption of innocence so whether you're a danger cannot be based on what you're charged with. The judge has to decide based on other factors, notably your record.
Looking at what you're charged with and calling you "brazen" is not appropriate. However, in practice, judges frequently base bail determinations on what a person is charged with. It's wrong and needs to be addressed but it's unfortunately common.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
I missed the article about pipe bombs being found in the Capitol building or any other government building. Link?
striker42
Well-known member
Him not turning over the rifle is about the only reason I see for denying bail. Even that could be argues against.
The fact the judge is pre-adjudicating him talking about the evidence presented in him storming the capitol is just wrong though. It doesn't matter what the evidence is, he still gets the presumption of innocence until there's a verdict.
Runnin
Well-known member
The State would not be going to the trouble of arresting someone and putting that person on trial if they "presumed innocence", but I know what you are saying.
striker42
Well-known member
The whole bail system is messed up. If a case is high profile, a judge is less likely to give bail when that shouldn't matter. If a guy is clearly not a threat but can't afford much bail they'll often rot in jail waiting for trial. Conversely, a businessman in the suburbs accused of murder will often get bail so long as the case isn't a media circus. It's really messed up.
Pretty sure I saw Photograph #133 out behind Walmart last night
Tapate50
Well-known member
20$ and a bus ticket gets that guy to March on the capitol
57Brave
Well-known member
BREAKING: Canada declares the white supremacists Proud Boys a terrorist entity, adding the far-right group to a list that includes al-Qaeda, ISIS and al-Shabab as part of an effort to crack down on what senior government officials called one of the country’s “most serious threats.”
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Her brother couldn’t make it to the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, but she worried that he would join a new insurrection — that one day “he would be one of the people on TV.”
The woman in her 30s asked her family to make plans, she said, hoping to keep her brother busy. Then she contacted a nonprofit group called Parents for Peace that seeks to pull people back from extremism, hoping to “save” him, after years of dismay at his hatred of Muslims and Mexicans and now alarm at his anger over the presidential election.
Dissecting her brother’s life and their relationship in weekly sessions, she started to wonder whether she was part of the problem.
The woman, who did not want her name or location made public so as not to upset her brother, is part of a surge of desperate families and friends calling organizations that aim to deradicalize and “deprogram” extremists across the ideological spectrum. Such organizations say demand for their free services has never been higher.
Parents for Peace, a 10-person operation of mostly volunteers, says calls to its national helpline have tripled since the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, with a growing number of younger people being groomed in white supremacist ideology. After supporters of then-President Donald Trump stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, the intervention groups have experienced a deluge of calls related to the attack as well as to conspiracy theories and QAnon.
The range of extremist ideas they encounter also has widened in the past year, driven by the 2020 election and the pandemic.
With the federal government sounding some of its strongest alarms yet about the threat of domestic extremism, these groups say they offer a way forward. Often staffed in part by the formerly radicalized, they are on the front lines of the fight against right-wing extremism, a growing threat that is in the spotlight but which experts argue has long been neglected.
“These are people who have chosen hate and ideology as a drug of choice to numb the pain of underlying issues and grievances, and so we treat this the same way we treat addiction,” said Myrieme Churchill, the executive director of Parents for Peace. A father co-founded the group after his radicalized son fatally shot a U.S. soldier.
Experts say deradicalization can be a long and winding process, full of reversals, and emphasize that formal programs are just one tool in a sprawling fight against an overwhelming problem. Some say that hardened extremists are often beyond reach until a tectonic shift in their own lives forces self-reflection.
Groups and movements like the Proud Boys, QAnon and the subculture of incels — “involuntary celibates” who preach extreme violence and misogyny — are part of the new wave of what Rangel called “pop-up” renditions of white supremacy. Members of all have sought help from Life After Hate, Rangel said, arguing that the growing eruption of far-right violence has made the need for intervention and rehabilitation more pressing than ever.
high school student from New Hampshire said he was 11 when he first stumbled upon the concept of white nationalism through an online anime imageboard. Now 17, he says he found a haven and sense of community in online platforms and social media forums where people would trumpet their far-right views. He was hooked.
Last year, he said, he grew more outspoken about his adherence to far-right nationalist theories such as “the Great Replacement,” which warns that the White population of Europe is being replaced by non-White immigrants.
Shocked and concerned, his parents turned to Parents for Peace. Weekly meetings with coaches — sometimes by himself, sometimes with his parents — dug into the family’s history and analyzed his ideology.
“My goal was not to challenge his thought process or ideology but to get to a point where he could do it on his own,” said Buckley, who worked with the teenager. The process was an “emotional roller coaster with peaks and valleys, built on trust and compassion,” he said.
It took almost six months, but eventually, the teenager came to recognize the irrationality of his beliefs — as well as the psychological toll they took on him. “It’s the most exhausting and draining place you can imagine,” he said. “It is filled with frothing vitriol, sheer unadulterated anger.”
Away from the Internet now, the teen says he has more time to play the banjo and listen to folk music.
“When I took a break from it, it felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders,” he said. “I was free.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...are-seeking-groups-that-deprogram-extremists/
hopefully the stimulus bill will provide a lot of funding to these deradicalization programs...they are doing important and vitally needed work
The woman in her 30s asked her family to make plans, she said, hoping to keep her brother busy. Then she contacted a nonprofit group called Parents for Peace that seeks to pull people back from extremism, hoping to “save” him, after years of dismay at his hatred of Muslims and Mexicans and now alarm at his anger over the presidential election.
Dissecting her brother’s life and their relationship in weekly sessions, she started to wonder whether she was part of the problem.
The woman, who did not want her name or location made public so as not to upset her brother, is part of a surge of desperate families and friends calling organizations that aim to deradicalize and “deprogram” extremists across the ideological spectrum. Such organizations say demand for their free services has never been higher.
Parents for Peace, a 10-person operation of mostly volunteers, says calls to its national helpline have tripled since the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, with a growing number of younger people being groomed in white supremacist ideology. After supporters of then-President Donald Trump stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, the intervention groups have experienced a deluge of calls related to the attack as well as to conspiracy theories and QAnon.
The range of extremist ideas they encounter also has widened in the past year, driven by the 2020 election and the pandemic.
With the federal government sounding some of its strongest alarms yet about the threat of domestic extremism, these groups say they offer a way forward. Often staffed in part by the formerly radicalized, they are on the front lines of the fight against right-wing extremism, a growing threat that is in the spotlight but which experts argue has long been neglected.
“These are people who have chosen hate and ideology as a drug of choice to numb the pain of underlying issues and grievances, and so we treat this the same way we treat addiction,” said Myrieme Churchill, the executive director of Parents for Peace. A father co-founded the group after his radicalized son fatally shot a U.S. soldier.
Experts say deradicalization can be a long and winding process, full of reversals, and emphasize that formal programs are just one tool in a sprawling fight against an overwhelming problem. Some say that hardened extremists are often beyond reach until a tectonic shift in their own lives forces self-reflection.
Groups and movements like the Proud Boys, QAnon and the subculture of incels — “involuntary celibates” who preach extreme violence and misogyny — are part of the new wave of what Rangel called “pop-up” renditions of white supremacy. Members of all have sought help from Life After Hate, Rangel said, arguing that the growing eruption of far-right violence has made the need for intervention and rehabilitation more pressing than ever.
high school student from New Hampshire said he was 11 when he first stumbled upon the concept of white nationalism through an online anime imageboard. Now 17, he says he found a haven and sense of community in online platforms and social media forums where people would trumpet their far-right views. He was hooked.
Last year, he said, he grew more outspoken about his adherence to far-right nationalist theories such as “the Great Replacement,” which warns that the White population of Europe is being replaced by non-White immigrants.
Shocked and concerned, his parents turned to Parents for Peace. Weekly meetings with coaches — sometimes by himself, sometimes with his parents — dug into the family’s history and analyzed his ideology.
“My goal was not to challenge his thought process or ideology but to get to a point where he could do it on his own,” said Buckley, who worked with the teenager. The process was an “emotional roller coaster with peaks and valleys, built on trust and compassion,” he said.
It took almost six months, but eventually, the teenager came to recognize the irrationality of his beliefs — as well as the psychological toll they took on him. “It’s the most exhausting and draining place you can imagine,” he said. “It is filled with frothing vitriol, sheer unadulterated anger.”
Away from the Internet now, the teen says he has more time to play the banjo and listen to folk music.
“When I took a break from it, it felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders,” he said. “I was free.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...are-seeking-groups-that-deprogram-extremists/
hopefully the stimulus bill will provide a lot of funding to these deradicalization programs...they are doing important and vitally needed work
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