Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours...

jpx7 said:
Solutions? It's largely been a state issue: in Illinois, for example, direct-sales are permissible—there are Tesla stores in Chicago; in other states, they had been allowed, but powerful in-state lobbies cajoled (read: bought) legislators' hands and pens. But automobile sales are not alone in this regard: any industry in which middle-men have carved out a fat stake for themselves watches this issues crop up at the state level (see: craft beer versus distributors lobbies).

It sucks—but, in the case of craft beer (and not to go all sturg on you), once enough people wanted the product, the distributors wised and laws were loosened. I'm not sure Tesla can look forward to an eventuality like that, at least any time soon. People need beer, and it turns out they want it to be good, even if it's a couple dollars more for a pint at the bar or a six at the grocery; people need cars, too (a bit unfortunately, I might add), but I'm not sure they want them to be luxury-electric if that means thousands of dollars more.
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It already happened for Tesla, NJ changed the law to let them sell in NJ.
 
jpx7 said:
Sure. But in that case, I think some of the initial responses in this thread—that Bush, in particular, needs to tread carefully, lest he look to be shoveling **** with a silver spade—aren't so off-base. I'm sure he's worked pretty hard in his life, despite his substantial leg-up to begin it; but that leg-up has the potential to give him perception problems (both amongst Republicans and the general populace) if he looks to be talking down too much—especially since he doesn't have the down-home doltish "charm" of his older brother.
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Isn't telling a rich man not to talk about a poor man's problems much like telling a man he couldn't possibly understand (much less influence) a woman's right to choose?

I take your point, but warily I think ... none of these Presidential candidates are everymen; we've got CEOs, old money, nouveau riche, celebrities, career politicians. They universally walk in a sphere of rarified privilege. ESP made a salient point earlier about not taking the shoveled **** from somebody who doesn't know or presumably really care what it's like down here in the trenches. But I guess I just see it as the nature of the beast.

Singling out Jebby because his folk did (really) well doesn't seem totally fair to me. It might have been if he said, "Y'all peons don't work hard enough." But he just said that getting the under-employed more hours/money was a road to economic growth for the country. How? Well, that's the real talk.
 
jpx7 said:
Solutions? It's largely been a state issue: in Illinois, for example, direct-sales are permissible—there are Tesla stores in Chicago; in other states, they had been allowed, but powerful in-state lobbies cajoled (read: bought) legislators' hands and pens. But automobile sales are not alone in this regard: any industry in which middle-men have carved out a fat stake for themselves watches this issues crop up at the state level (see: craft beer versus distributors lobbies).

It sucks—but, in the case of craft beer (and not to go all sturg on you), once enough people wanted the product, the distributors wised and laws were loosened. I'm not sure Tesla can look forward to an eventuality like that, at least any time soon. People need beer, and it turns out they want it to be good, even if it's a couple dollars more for a pint at the bar or a six at the grocery; people need cars, too (a bit unfortunately, I might add), but I'm not sure they want them to be luxury-electric if that means thousands of dollars more.
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I also think about Uber and the uphill battle that they've faced to freely grow. Similarly, the medical marijuana industry (although I obtained a 'triple-strength' bar of med. chocolate last weekend and literally passed out cold at a bar so ... more stringent regulation needed) and other more socially dictated business realms.

Between arcane regulations and non-existent small business support systems it's like we want to strangle home-grown (no pun) entrepreneurial spirit.
 
zitothebrave said:
It already happened for Tesla, NJ changed the law to let them sell in NJ.
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Yeah, after the company spent millions of dollars in legal/lobbying fees (in addition to lost business) ... and now multiply that times however many states/locales tossed up barricades.
 
Hawk said:
Isn't telling a rich man not to talk about a poor man's problems much like telling a man he couldn't possibly understand [...] a woman's right to choose?
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I actually lean towards the position that a biological man can't fully understand a biological woman's right to choose—or, at least, the psychology of that choice.

Hawk said:
I take your point, but warily I think ... none of these Presidential candidates are everymen; we've got CEOs, old money, nouveau riche, celebrities, career politicians. They universally walk in a sphere of rarified privilege. ESP made a salient point earlier about not taking the shoveled **** from somebody who doesn't know or presumably really care what it's like down here in the trenches. But I guess I just see it as the nature of the beast.

Singling out Jebby because his folk did (really) well doesn't seem totally fair to me. It might have been if he said, "Y'all peons don't work hard enough." But he just said that getting the under-employed more hours/money was a road to economic growth for the country. How? Well, that's the real talk.
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I'm not holding it against him, per se, I'm just handicapping the climate. All the candidates, on both sides, have their pound of privilege—and some much more—but, fairly or not, I think Bush is going to be held to a different standard in this regard, both because of his name and because—unlike his brother—his public persona doesn't so obviously compensate for that name.
 
jpx7 said:
I actually lean towards the position that a biological man can't fully understand a biological woman's right to choose—or, at least, the psychology of that choice.
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I agree entirely, I just mentioned that because men, largely, were the ones who ultimately gave women that legal right -- despite the fact that it wasn't an arena they had much experience in.

I'm not holding it against him, per se, I'm just handicapping the climate. All the candidates, on both sides, have their pound of privilege—and some much more—but, fairly or not, I think Bush is going to be held to a different standard in this regard, both because of his name and because—unlike his brother—his public persona doesn't so obviously compensate for that name.
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I think that's fair. Jeb was your childhood(ish) Governor, right? I'd imagine you have a more intimate understanding of his personality and politics than most.
 
Hawk said:
Yeah, after the company spent millions of dollars in legal/lobbying fees (in addition to lost business) ... and now multiply that times however many states/locales tossed up barricades.
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Viable point, but Tesla didn't lobby much in NJ. It was one of those duh things. The law passed was basically to allow Tesla and other ZE manufacturers in the state with a few show rooms. It wasn't anything too drastic. If they had to lobby, it was to the Senate.
 
Hawk said:
Singling out Jebby because his folk did (really) well doesn't seem totally fair to me. It might have been if he said, "Y'all peons don't work hard enough." But he just said that getting the under-employed more hours/money was a road to economic growth for the country. How? Well, that's the real talk.
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Are you nuts?

Prescott Bush - Treason

George HW Bush - War Criminal

George W Bush - War Criminal

This POS comes from a family that has had a hand in basically killing more humans than anyone else on this planet. They are some of the biggest terrorists any of us have ever seen. You're seriously going to sit here and say that we should give Jeb a fair shot? As if maybe he's going to be different? You're taking the #1 most dangerous man that has any sort of realistic shot at the presidency and giving him the benefit of the doubt even though he comes from a line of some of the worst individuals that have ever graced this earth.

A lot of you guys are very smart. A hell of a lot smarter than me. But god damn do some of you lack common sense.
 
sturg33 said:
My solution is to give people the right to work for whatever both parties agree to. I'm sure US companies would gladly pay some 16-18 year olds $4-$7 an hour - but they're not allowed to here.
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Yeah, for good ****ing reason that isn't allowed
 
jpx7 said:
I actually lean towards the position that a biological man can't fully understand a biological woman's right to choose—or, at least, the psychology of that choice.

I'm not holding it against him, per se, I'm just handicapping the climate. All the candidates, on both sides, have their pound of privilege—and some much more—but, fairly or not, I think Bush is going to be held to a different standard in this regard, both because of his name and because—unlike his brother—his public persona doesn't so obviously compensate for that name.
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I am sorry, but opening your legs, take precautions yourself or the man is readily available, but killing a human being because they are are mistake just rubs me wrong. Yes women should have rights, but murder is not one of them when participating in a MISTAKE at their own whim. They should know their cycle and when they can conceive, why do it then? Oh, don't trust a man using a johnny and when are to have birth, if not married or with man, then what? You complain when they are not around, well don't open your damn legs until you are sure.
 
ESP47 said:
Are you nuts?

Prescott Bush - Treason
George HW Bush - War Criminal
George W Bush - War Criminal

This POS comes from a family that has had a hand in basically killing more humans than anyone else on this planet. They are some of the biggest terrorists any of us have ever seen. You're seriously going to sit here and say that we should give Jeb a fair shot? As if maybe he's going to be different? You're taking the #1 most dangerous man that has any sort of realistic shot at the presidency and giving him the benefit of the doubt even though he comes from a line of some of the worst individuals that have ever graced this earth.

A lot of you guys are very smart. A hell of a lot smarter than me. But god damn do some of you lack common sense.
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You are right, but Hillrod or any Democrat sucks just as much......just saying.
 
AerchAngel said:
You are right, but Hillrod or any Democrat sucks just as much......just saying.
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Don't think that I'm automatically for Democrats because I think Bush is a joke. Anyone who votes one side or the other is responsible for getting us in the mess that we're currently in.
 
By the way, CEOS make a shut ton of money. But sometimes it's well deserved.

For example, I was just with Home Depot and meeting with their treasurer. He informed us that the new strategy the CEO has embarked on in the last 12 months has earned/saved the companies Billions (with a B)

Having the right guy at the healmake to make huge decisions is worth a LOT
 
ESP47 said:
You're seriously going to sit here and say that we should give Jeb a fair shot?
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Yes.

Aligning your vote with the candidate who most broadly parallels your belief system, could theoretically guide his party in a direction desperately needed, and is going to surround himself with leaders of like mind is about the absolute best one can do.

It's about so much more than the man himself. And I think you know that.

But ... choosing not to vote for a guy because you perceive his family to be evil? That's just some kind of weird Damien-level conspiratorial ****, IMHO. Let me guess, you believe in the NWO too?

I'd like to know who you support so I can lambaste them with ludicrous half-truths and exaggerations, though.
 
sturg33 said:
By the way, CEOS make a shut ton of money. But sometimes it's well deserved.

For example, I was just with Home Depot and meeting with their treasurer. He informed us that the new strategy the CEO has embarked on in the last 12 months has earned/saved the companies Billions (with a B)

Having the right guy at the healmake to make huge decisions is worth a LOT
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I wish the pendulum swung both ways. I'm with you, I have no problem paying a CEO handsomely for the implementation of a highly successful vision. However -- if he fails (for whatever reason) -- he shouldn't continue to be rewarded.

My favorite CEO story of all time: http://www.wdrb.com/story/9283503/japanese-airline-president-and-ceo-shares-the-pain
 
Hawk said:
Yes.

Aligning your vote with the candidate who most broadly parallels your belief system, could theoretically guide his party in a direction desperately needed, and is going to surround himself with leaders of like mind is about the absolute best one can do.

It's about so much more than the man himself. And I think you know that.

But ... choosing not to vote for a guy because you perceive his family to be evil? That's just some kind of weird Damien-level conspiratorial ****, IMHO. Let me guess, you believe in the NWO too?

I'd like to know who you support so I can lambaste them with ludicrous half-truths and exaggerations, though.
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Theoretically your first sentence there is correct but this world isn't theoretical. The truth is that basically all of these incumbents are in bed with big business. Which means you're going to get the same old bait and switch you've been getting your entire life. Why would you continually keep pulling for the people who have proven time and time again that they are not out to see over your best interests? Every 4 years we get the same old spiel and at the end of those 4 years we're all pissed off that nothing is being done to help us.

Yes I absolutely would not vote for a guy because his family has proven to be evil. How do you think you've stayed alive this long? Would you jump into a lions cage because maybe this lion will be different than the other lions? Would you walk up to a group of gangsters at night in Oakland because maybe these gangsters will be different than the other gangsters? It's natural instinct man. It only takes touching the iron once to realize it's hot. Yet every 4 years the American public goes stupid again and starts ironing their shirts while wearing them John Smoltz style.

I don't support any of them and I'll just end up voting for myself. To throw you a bone I'd say that if I was forced to support one of them it would probably be Bernie Sanders even though I normally can't stand super left wingers. He at least has walked the walk with many of his statements unlike Hilary who says she is out to change things while receiving million dollar bribes from Goldman Sachs.
 
ESP47 said:
Theoretically your first sentence there is correct but this world isn't theoretical. The truth is that basically all of these incumbents are in bed with big business. Which means you're going to get the same old bait and switch you've been getting your entire life. Why would you continually keep pulling for the people who have proven time and time again that they are not out to see over your best interests? Every 4 years we get the same old spiel and at the end of those 4 years we're all pissed off that nothing is being done to help us.

Yes I absolutely would not vote for a guy because his family has proven to be evil. How do you think you've stayed alive this long? Would you jump into a lions cage because maybe this lion will be different than the other lions? Would you walk up to a group of gangsters at night in Oakland because maybe these gangsters will be different than the other gangsters? It's natural instinct man. It only takes touching the iron once to realize it's hot. Yet every 4 years the American public goes stupid again and starts ironing their shirts while wearing them John Smoltz style.

I don't support any of them and I'll just end up voting for myself. To throw you a bone I'd say that if I was forced to support one of them it would probably be Bernie Sanders even though I normally can't stand super left wingers. He at least has walked the walk with many of his statements unlike Hilary who says she is out to change things while receiving million dollar bribes from Goldman Sachs.
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I remember you use to kill me on here, but damn, straight up truth from your posting.

Nice post.

Oh, a definition of a Democrat/Republican American, Insanamerican? Doing the same thing but expecting different results. I laughed.
 
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