Nah man the only thing you'd do that irritated me was spend so much time blasting liberals for this or that. I mean I don't agree with most of that crazy stuff either but it's such a small percentage compared to the real problems. The media puts that junk out there to keep us pointing fingers at each other while Washington is passing legislation behind our backs to further screw us over. I'm with you on welfare and all that but lets focus on the small handful of people that are stealing just as much as the millions on welfare. Once we deal with the meat and potatoes we can then deal with the rest.
Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours...
- Thread starter goldfly
- Start date
Nah man the only thing you'd do that irritated me was spend so much time blasting liberals for this or that. I mean I don't agree with most of that crazy stuff either but it's such a small percentage compared to the real problems. The media puts that junk out there to keep us pointing fingers at each other while Washington is passing legislation behind our backs to further screw us over. I'm with you on welfare and all that but lets focus on the small handful of people that are stealing just as much as the millions on welfare. Once we deal with the meat and potatoes we can then deal with the rest.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
That is not much. We are begging for drivers now and can't fill it. Funny, that is one occupation we can't ship overseas. Wait, there is nothing in our company that can be shipped overseas, not even my job.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
50, with another sound and balanced read. Grateful that there are some around these parts not prone to the stupid gotcha game.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
so absurd i'm honestly not sure what to say
i try to imagine what the people that had no other choice than work the horrible back breaking and sometimes deadly jobs that stood up to fight the establishment you want so we can have work laws where kids should be kids instead of slaves, have a 40 hour work week, get vacation etc etc would say to someone like you
what a sad cruel world you are in favor of where people would end up working for nothing and children would be getting jobs instead of little league
but hey back on topic, we really need to work more hours as people in this country. the western country that works the most hours and has the least to show for it. GO JEB!!!!
Tapate50
Well-known member
Did you see the qualifications?
sturg33
I
So you think if you get rid of the minimum wage, then everyone will be forced to work in sweatshops making pennies a day.
I once again will ask you then, why isn't everyone making minimum wage today, then? Why am I consistently making more money, rather than pay decreases? There's nothing stopping my employer from cutting my pay - except for my willingness to accept it.
What is the country as a whole to gain from minimum wage people making even less?
What does the country have to gain for minimum wage people making more?
I didn't say they needed to make more.
Minimum wage should allow you to enough money to live, just uncomfortably. I've never looked down on a worker at McDonalds and thought that this person shouldn't even be allowed to live in an apartment with a roommate and be afforded medical care. Maybe they're dumb, maybe their lazy or maybe they've just fallen on hard times? Either way they are performing a service that requires some sort of effort and they should be compensated at minimum for that.
I think that min wage and welfare should be equivalent to living at your parents house when they no longer want you there. Yeah you can live like that, but it should be so uncomfortable that you're forced to put in the effort to get out of that situation.
Lowering minimum wage just forces people to become more reliant on social programs. They're going to need to be on welfare to just provide themselves with the basic needs to survive if they can't live at home. You're taking the people who put in the effort to go to school while working and basically making it so they either can't afford school or they have to financial aid to go.
sturg33
I
Well, ignoring the fact that you'd be letting people have more liberty, you could point towards less jobs being shipped overseas, more lower skilled workers getting jobs, less people collecting unemployment benefits, etc.
The minimum wage actually corners people into the lowest wage possible. Instead of every contract being negotiated, companies can easily simply say "Pay him the minimum wage." That can work in favor for some, and against others. If you remove the minimum wage altogether, it does several things:
- Forces companies to either set a "company minimum wage" - which would put them at the mercy of the market reactions
- Forces companies/employees to negotiate their contracts - which can easily lead to higher pay
- Allow lower skilled workers, or teens, to have an opportunity to work to gain some experience and collect some cash
In addition to the benefits listed above.
But as a guy who is involved in the budgeting for call center employees, I can flat out tell you that that the minimum wage constricts us from hiring additional people during high volume seasons. We would love to hire some high school / college kids for $4-$6 an hour during the holiday, but we're not allowed to. So when you call our call center and have to wait an extra 10 minutes or you have to talk to an Indian guy, don't get mad.
Who are these lower skilled workers that should be getting paid less than the current minimum wage? Since when does American have an epidemic of unemployed teenagers?
So companies would set a "company minimum wage" which would put them at the mercy of the market. If the market was as free as you guys seem to still think it is...their wages would be set higher already. There is no maximum wage holding the market back from bumping their pay up based on skill. Minimum wage jobs are minimum wage because they already don't require much skill to perform.
Negotiating contracts on low skilled labor? Please tell me what kind of leverage these non skilled people would have that would be able to "easily' negotiate a higher wage? Come on man.
Allow low skilled workers or teens the opportunity to gain work experience and cash? Again, who are these workers who are so unskilled that they can't even work a cash register or flip a burger? Are we talking about autistic people? The mentally retarded? The handicapped? Who are they? And why would you want to take jobs away from older people and give them to high school kids at a lower wage? I'm not seeing the logic there.
You say unemployment goes down, but then you don't account for the fact that welfare and other aid goes up because these people can't afford to live on even a financially sound budget.
You guys make me sound way more liberal than I am because you are completely out of touch with reality. I don't make anything close to minimum wage but I've never walked around thinking we have an epidemic of burger flippers dragging this country down with their massive salaries. The country has never had a bigger gap in wages from the rich to the poor than it does right now and for some reason you want to widen that gap even more.
sturg33
I
I've never seen so many points missed in a post in my entire life.
Here's a scenario for you. Let's say the minimum wage in this country is $10.
Local mom and pop store is growing and wants to hire 3 new workers - but can only afford $24/hr.
In your scenario, this store can only legally hire 2 people. That's it. Even if they had 3 people who were willing to work for $8/hr - they can't do it. In my scenario, they could higher 3, or 4, or 5, or 6 - provided they could find the people who wanted the work.
I like leaving those decisions to companies and employees, not the bureaucrats in Washington - who never seem to miss an opportunity to vote for themselves a nice raise.
To be honest, you come across as a kind of anarcho-communist. And I don't mean that perjoratively, it's just that the direction you seem to want to push the needle could never be truly achieved in any other setting.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
the biggest thing that needs to happen with minimum wage is that it should go up and the people at the top not take as much
it should keep up with inflation
no matter what we as a country do, there will have to be people working at gas stations and mcdonalds etc and they deserve to be able to live a life and not be stuck in poverty
it's really ****ing simple
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
cause poor people have a lot of options to do this
I'm missing the point because I gave you some cons to the pros you listed?
Ok lets take your mom and pop scenario and go further with it. Why can't the mom and pop afford to hire the 3 people at $10/hr? Is it because they can't compete with big businesses like Walmart who pretty much solely run their businesses off of outsourced slave labor?
Now you want the United States to start lowering their wages to complete with 3rd world countries slave labor? Who does this benefit as a whole? You think that mom and pop shops are just going to spring up all over the place and become successful because they can hire American workers for just a few bucks an hour? All this is going to do is funnel even more and more money straight to the top. Out of the poor and middle class and right into the 1%ers hands.
The problem will never ever be corrected until corporations are forced to make their products here. Yeah the poor CEO is going to have to take a paycut so he's only filthy rich instead of insanely stupid filthy rich.
Hardly. I'm all for capitalism but it obviously doesn't work when you have greedy money/power hungry people who want to dominate the world with no regard for anything other than their bank accounts. I think there should be a wage gap. You should get paid more if you're smarter or if you work harder. There is just absolutely no need for the gap to be insanely as large as it is to the point where children are working for pennies to make one guy rich. Why do you support a system like this? These assholes are running wild on us and you guys seem to want to give them even more freedom to do as they wish.
The country wasn't always like this. It's never been perfect but we didn't live in an anarchist communist society when products were being made here by hard working people that were able to bring home enough money to buy a house, car and raise their children comfortably. If wanting that makes me a communist then **** it, I'm a communist. To me, it makes you brain washed for wanting to give rights to the very people who lobby to have your rights taken away....but hey what do I know. Keep on supporting those who oppress you in the name of freedom.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
i can look at history and how the market worked to know how it would go
you are getting paid more cause you love personal liberty
sturg33
I
I don't know why they cna't afford to hire 3 people at $10. Maybe because the government has over-reugluated the hell out of starting a business that it's nearly impossible to do these days, and every penny is sacred.
You do realize that Walmart's profit margin is a whopping 3.3%. Their operating margin is like 5%. They do everything they can to cut costs out of their products so it is cheaper. You force them to raise their pay, they either hire less people (less jobs) or raise their prices (which hurts poor people)
You're mad at the wage gap. We get it. But the minimum wage has nothing to do with it. It's the free money over the last few decades (and especially since 2009). That money went straight to the top. It went to the banks. The rich people borrowed. The rich invested. The rich got richer. If you want to blame the wage gap - look at your government and the federal reserve.