Jecki Lon Memorial Star Wars Thread

[zitothebrave]

4 episodes to go. I guess they are making Ki-Adi-Mundi a liar now? Or invovled in some kind of cover up? Let's see how it plays out.

Having actually watched the episode now, nothing in the episode makes him a liar, as the conclusion from that council was Mae was trained by a Jedi. Vernestra Rwoh says so certainly. She believes as I assume everyone here does that a Jedi is going against the order for some reason.

 

[zitothebrave]

The unhinged portion of the Fandom Menace sent death threats to WOokiepedia editors

Sad that people are so ****ing stupid and honestly evil that they would consider doing this. What's wild are the comments below are unhinged. Blue Check Mark that's at the top is a lunatic.

[tw]1803517164776989131[/tw]

 

[striker42]

I think you may be right. If the master is Indara and she was using Mae's past to fuel and knew the daggers wouldn't kill her, then it would make sense for it be her. What are the bigger motivations? WHo knows.

My guess is that Indara was the one who killed the witches it's been the prevailing conspiracy, how were all the witches dead before the fire consumed them. But it could be a witch or a member of the coven. THere were hooded guards, one of them could have been a dark side user.

But I think your'e right in that it is a Jedi, it's not Manny Jacinto's character (who's name I can't remember right now) and based on what we've seen all the people killed have something horrible to hide. Torbin took the Barash Vow, which means he was repenting for something, and his master was Indara so he must have been involved or witnessed something horrible. I do not recall if he was a jedi master when he took the vow. Did they call him master torbin? Cannot remember. Maybe the Barash Vow was related to his being taken over by the witches who knows.

Anyway. I also believe there's a gender swap by subtle clues in the episode. When Osha says he....they when unsure about Bazil's gender. As Bazil was a species unfamiliar to Osha. Mae seems so firmly sure that the master is a man that it has to be a woman. Based on the subtle clues given.

They seem to be leaning heavily into showing the Jedi weren't the pure, noble order they portrayed themselves being. I think the master is Indara and her motivation is to show the Jedi are bad and topple them from their pedestal.

I think the Jedi were absolutely responsible for the deaths of the witches (note Torbin's facial wound was there when Osha wakes up in the ship). The slaughter disillusioned Indara and she turned to the dark side. She now wants Mae to try to kill a Jedi without a weapon with the intention that the Jedi kills her. They make a big deal about Jedi not attacking the unarmed so that happening would be damaging to the order.

I don't think she died in the fight. She clearly had people there working with her that could easily fake her death. I find it hard to believe a Jedi master couldn't knock two daggers out of the air at the same time.

Manny Jacinto's character was being hinted at being the master. He somehow tracked down the wookie, he was evasive about his relationship with the master, and he was removed from the action before the master shows up giving him the opportunity to be the master. But it seems like a red herring. His character isn't connected enough to the story to be a fitting reveal. The master needs to be someone who was at the slaughter of the coven.

 

[zitothebrave]

They seem to be leaning heavily into showing the Jedi weren't the pure, noble order they portrayed themselves being. I think the master is Indara and her motivation is to show the Jedi are bad and topple them from their pedestal.

I think the Jedi were absolutely responsible for the deaths of the witches (note Torbin's facial wound was there when Osha wakes up in the ship). The slaughter disillusioned Indara and she turned to the dark side. She now wants Mae to try to kill a Jedi without a weapon with the intention that the Jedi kills her. They make a big deal about Jedi not attacking the unarmed so that happening would be damaging to the order.

I don't think she died in the fight. She clearly had people there working with her that could easily fake her death. I find it hard to believe a Jedi master couldn't knock two daggers out of the air at the same time.

Manny Jacinto's character was being hinted at being the master. He somehow tracked down the wookie, he was evasive about his relationship with the master, and he was removed from the action before the master shows up giving him the opportunity to be the master. But it seems like a red herring. His character isn't connected enough to the story to be a fitting reveal. The master needs to be someone who was at the slaughter of the coven.

Well I think we knew the Jedi weren't pure, sure there were pure jedi but we have tons of examples of bad ones. And I think it's important to kind of setup the fall of the Jedi. A pure Jedi order wouldn't have gotten wrapped up in the clone wars as generals.

I mean I'm right there with you with the Jedi, because the story was told through the lens of Osha, we don't see what else happens. But I don't know the details was it them going there and a fight breaking out, or if there were more nefarious means.

It has to be a red herring, it would be too obvious.

 

[thewupk]

The unhinged portion of the Fandom Menace sent death threats to WOokiepedia editors

Sad that people are so ****ing stupid and honestly evil that they would consider doing this. What's wild are the comments below are unhinged. Blue Check Mark that's at the top is a lunatic.

[tw]1803517164776989131[/tw]

Some people take it way too seriously. But yes, no one hates Star Wars like Star Wars fans.

 

[zitothebrave]

 

[striker42]

Well I think we knew the Jedi weren't pure, sure there were pure jedi but we have tons of examples of bad ones. And I think it's important to kind of setup the fall of the Jedi. A pure Jedi order wouldn't have gotten wrapped up in the clone wars as generals.

I mean I'm right there with you with the Jedi, because the story was told through the lens of Osha, we don't see what else happens. But I don't know the details was it them going there and a fight breaking out, or if there were more nefarious means.

It has to be a red herring, it would be too obvious.

Agreed. The order had issues which contributed directly to its downfall. A Jedi who becomes disillusioned because of the issues could easily fall to the dark side.

I think we'll see Torbin taken over again. There's apparently a trailer where he's shown fighting the wookie. It makes sense if he was being controlled. That would also give reason for Indara and perhaps Sol to lay into the witches.

One criticism I have of this show so far is the pacing. They haven't had near enough action to grip you and have moved the story along at a snail's pace. You probably could have covered everything in the first 4 episodes in an episode and a half.

 

[striker42]

Some people take it way too seriously. But yes, no one hates Star Wars like Star Wars fans.

I think Star Wars has just become a proxy for larger culture war issues. A lot of culture warriors who don't even really care about the franchise have been drawn in, not by the content, but by by Kennedy and CO's comments.

If the people working on Star Wars had all kept their mouths shut it wouldn't have become a lightning rod.

That being said, the sequel trilogy was awful and should be derided.

 

[zitothebrave]

One criticism I have of this show so far is the pacing. They haven't had near enough action to grip you and have moved the story along at a snail's pace. You probably could have covered everything in the first 4 episodes in an episode and a half.

I feel like this is a common thing in modern showrunning. BReaking Bad was infamous and beloved for it's slow burn story telling that I feel like it winds up being too common of a trope.

I don't mind the pacing. I would have probably broken up the flashback instead of having the episode, but I'm assuming this is done because the importance of the flashbacks.

 

[zitothebrave]

I think Star Wars has just become a proxy for larger culture war issues. A lot of culture warriors who don't even really care about the franchise have been drawn in, not by the content, but by by Kennedy and CO's comments.

If the people working on Star Wars had all kept their mouths shut it wouldn't have become a lightning rod.

That being said, the sequel trilogy was awful and should be derided.

People were doing this way before anyone spoke up. No one at LF was saying **** when Kelly Marie Tran was bullied off instagram. The reaction from Kennedy and Co came because of people being sexist, racist, etc.

Long before Kennedy said anything the chuds online were coming at Leslye because she was a lesbian writing star wars.

 

[striker42]

People were doing this way before anyone spoke up. No one at LF was saying **** when Kelly Marie Tran was bullied off instagram. The reaction from Kennedy and Co came because of people being sexist, racist, etc.

Long before Kennedy said anything the chuds online were coming at Leslye because she was a lesbian writing star wars.

Kathleen Kennedy said her infamous "The Force is Female" line in May of 2017. The Last Jedi came out in December of 2017. Tran wasn't bullied off Twitter until 2018.

You can go back to Kennedy's advocacy for females for years. She pretty much decided the sequel trilogy was going to have a female lead before anything else.

While there's nothing wrong with her advocating for females, doing so while producing substandard content is drawing a target on your back for people attacking woke culture. It gives the impression you're prioritizing representation over quality.

 

[zitothebrave]

Kathleen Kennedy said her infamous "The Force is Female" line in May of 2017. The Last Jedi came out in December of 2017. Tran wasn't bullied off Twitter until 2018.

You can go back to Kennedy's advocacy for females for years. She pretty much decided the sequel trilogy was going to have a female lead before anything else.

While there's nothing wrong with her advocating for females, doing so while producing substandard content is drawing a target on your back for people attacking woke culture. It gives the impression you're prioritizing representation over quality.

The Force is Female was a Nike Campaign. No one heard what she said, because it's all online rage baiting.

Anyway, who cares if the lead is female? The lead in Lucas's sequel plans was also a female lead who was trained by luke. He also intended for the Sequels to be mainly about Leia (like Rian went for)

 

[striker42]

The Force is Female was a Nike Campaign. No one heard what she said, because it's all online rage baiting.

Anyway, who cares if the lead is female? The lead in Lucas's sequel plans was also a female lead who was trained by luke. He also intended for the Sequels to be mainly about Leia (like Rian went for)

No one should care and no one would if we'd been given a good product. Look at Rogue One. Female lead but a fantastic movie. No one was harping about it.

It's when the content doesn't deliver after you've pushed the representation stuff that you draw the ire of the trolls.

Personally, I don't care what Kennedy advocates. I think she should be fired for delivering so much wretched content and then blaming the fans for her failures.

 

[The Tariff King]

I blame Kennedy and Disney for trying to distance themselves so much from Lucas to give the fans what they thought the fans were clamoring for.

And then we got those three sequels and Solo movie.

Rogue One still shines the best to this day of all the new movies. And not coincidentally it is the closest to Lucas' vision of Star Wars.

 

[zitothebrave]

I blame Kennedy and Disney for trying to distance themselves so much from Lucas to give the fans what they thought the fans were clamoring for.

And then we got those three sequels and Solo movie.

Rogue One still shines the best to this day of all the new movies. And not coincidentally it is the closest to Lucas' vision of Star Wars.

Rogue One is hardly close to LUcas's vision. Aside from it being a quick prequel. I don't think Lucas would have made that movie. Nothing about that film felt like Lucas Star Wars. BUt that's OK. We saw Lucas's dream vision for Star Wars, it was the prequels. HE wants to make Space soaps, not Apollo Mission Impossible

 

[striker42]

One problem Disney created was decanonizing that expanded universe. There were two decades of stories that had been built up. Some of them really good stories. By destroying the expanded universe, Disney ensured their content would be measured against the expanded universe.

Unfortunately, the Disney content has often not measured up. Instead of Luke and Mara Jade we got old angry Luke milking a walrus. Instead of Heir to the Empire we got Emo Ren. Instead of Rogue Squadron we got the Holdo Maneuver.

If the first teaser trailer for Episode VII had been a pair of glowing red eyes, Star Wars fandom would be a much better place.

 

[zitothebrave]

One problem Disney created was decanonizing that expanded universe. There were two decades of stories that had been built up. Some of them really good stories. By destroying the expanded universe, Disney ensured their content would be measured against the expanded universe.

Unfortunately, the Disney content has often not measured up. Instead of Luke and Mara Jade we got old angry Luke milking a walrus. Instead of Heir to the Empire we got Emo Ren. Instead of Rogue Squadron we got the Holdo Maneuver.

If the first teaser trailer for Episode VII had been a pair of glowing red eyes, Star Wars fandom would be a much better place.

They never decanonized the EU. Lucas never canonized the EU. He may have said it was fine to do certain things but it was never canon.

No one wants Mara Jade. No one wants Love interests for Luke. No one wants Luuke. No one wants Grand Moff Hissa. People don't want those things. No one wants Kyle Katarn, no one wants Starkiller, no one wants those things. The people who do don't want it cause the second they're adapted everyone will hate them.

THe issues with the EU was numerous, the biggest being the actual age of the characters. Unless you recast luke han and Leia (imagine that **** storm) you'd have 60 and 70 year olds trying to act like 30 and 40 year olds. Which is dumb. So you age things up? Fine. Why would Luke be celebate and a jedi for years and years thne just break it for someone?

Everyone says they want Heir to the Empire, but it takes place 3 or 4 years after battle of endor, Mark Hammill, Harrison Ford, and Carrie Fisher are 30+ years older than when they last played the characters. Never was there going to be anything like what you want unless it was animated or you recast and you think fans wouldn't have shat a brick about that? Imagine if Carrie Fisher died while someone else played Princess Leia?

 

[striker42]

They never decanonized the EU. Lucas never canonized the EU. He may have said it was fine to do certain things but it was never canon.

No one wants Mara Jade. No one wants Love interests for Luke. No one wants Luuke. No one wants Grand Moff Hissa. People don't want those things. No one wants Kyle Katarn, no one wants Starkiller, no one wants those things. The people who do don't want it cause the second they're adapted everyone will hate them.

THe issues with the EU was numerous, the biggest being the actual age of the characters. Unless you recast luke han and Leia (imagine that **** storm) you'd have 60 and 70 year olds trying to act like 30 and 40 year olds. Which is dumb. So you age things up? Fine. Why would Luke be celebate and a jedi for years and years thne just break it for someone?

Everyone says they want Heir to the Empire, but it takes place 3 or 4 years after battle of endor, Mark Hammill, Harrison Ford, and Carrie Fisher are 30+ years older than when they last played the characters. Never was there going to be anything like what you want unless it was animated or you recast and you think fans wouldn't have shat a brick about that? Imagine if Carrie Fisher died while someone else played Princess Leia?

You don't need a 1 for 1 Heir to the Empire. You can change it to fit the current age requirements. It would still be a WAY better story than the sequel trilogy. People are more understanding of age related changes than changes because someone thinks they can redefine Star Wars.

I will categorically disagree that no one wants Mara Jade. Luke remaking a Jedi order that allows attachments 100% fits with what we know of Luke's character. Seeing Luke marry another force user and allow such attachments would be in line with his character.

But it's not just later characters. The Revan and Bastilla storyline is better than anything Disney has made. There's so much to draw off of with the expanded universe. Giving us Rey, who lacked almost any agency and never encountered anything she couldn't do was a huge disappointment.

 

[zitothebrave]

You don't need a 1 for 1 Heir to the Empire. You can change it to fit the current age requirements. It would still be a WAY better story than the sequel trilogy. People are more understanding of age related changes than changes because someone thinks they can redefine Star Wars.

I will categorically disagree that no one wants Mara Jade. Luke remaking a Jedi order that allows attachments 100% fits with what we know of Luke's character. Seeing Luke marry another force user and allow such attachments would be in line with his character.

But it's not just later characters. The Revan and Bastilla storyline is better than anything Disney has made. There's so much to draw off of with the expanded universe. Giving us Rey, who lacked almost any agency and never encountered anything she couldn't do was a huge disappointment.

This is the problem, people confuse attachments with sex. Luke had attachments. He wasn't anti-attachment. He believed his attachments were with everyone he cared for. Han Leia, etc. Love can be more than sex. People wanted Luke to **** because they saw themselves as Luke and fan inserted them into him and he wasn't ****ing he wasn't a man. Luke is a highly religious person, celevacy in priests, eastern monks, etc. isn't uncommon.

So let's talk aging it. Fine just for ****s and giggles. Let's stick major plot points.

Stuff that won't be hard to age up - Characters existence not hard. Doesn't really make sense for 70 year old han to still be an active fighter and not take more of a dodanna type of role, but whatever.

Events: I find it hard to believe Thrawn could keep the remnants of the empire together under the empire banner for 30 years. The reason the first order kind of works is it's a new political and military power. I mean you could explain it by saying the empire was never officially destroyed just pushed to the outer reaches of the Galaxy but how does that not spit in the face of star wars?

Finally from a storytelling standpoint not aging it up it would be horrible.

Movie one is about establishing the villain, not the worst thing. Thrawn and his remnants get force disrupting salamanders to overtake a palatine cloning facility. A clone of a Jedi master offers to join him if he lets him take Luke and Leia as acolytes. Thrawn continues to grow his empire, Luke and Leia and co are secondary in this. BTW thrawns biggest threat isn't Luke or Leia, or Han, but Admiral Ackbar.

Second movie is about putting the heroes on their heels. Hey first we start the movie off introducing something that never has existed in star wars, an automated fleet of ships from the Clone Wats era. Suremakes sense the empire never went down that path as they devalued human life, but it doesn't make sense for it's creation then when they couldn't have an X Wing that needed only 1 pilot but hey this isn't ****ting on Lucas's legacy. Thrawns makes clones and uses a religiously enslaved people (Nogrhi) and gets gains. But needs Katana fleet. Luke and Leia rescue the person who knows it's location from Thrawn but Thrawn still gets the fleet.

third book. Thrawn uses invisible astroids (lol) to cripple New Republic capital coruscant, NR forces try to press the advantage by attacking a ship yard to get a device to find clocked asteroids, while Luke and Leia go to destroy the cloning facility with the now religiously attached to Luke and Leia Nogrhi. Thrawn dies not by hands of Luke, Leia, Han, or any other protagonist, but by Rukh his Nogri assassin.

Yeah that sounds so good.....

What makes the books good is that Zahn is writing Thrawn books, books about an interesting villain, his takes on the heroes is bad. Like really bad.

They have pulled from the EU. Thrawn ported and honestly ported better than I expected into canon via Rebels and Ahsoka. Which allows him to be a threat and not be around in the OT era. There's other examples I won't get into. But one thing Filoni and crew have done well is pull from history while still moving the story forward.

 

[zitothebrave]

BTW when I say no one wants it because they don't

there were a combined 15M copies of the Thrawn Trilogy sold. Averaging 5M per book. To make close to what Rise of Skywalker made in sales. at an average of 12 dollars a ticket, more than 5 times that number of people who read any of the the Thrawn Trilogy books would need to see every film.

People don't care about the EU. THey don't. Just because a loud minority says they do doesn't mean they do. about 85M people world wide saw RIse of Skywalker. You cannot tell me that more people would have shown up if Thrawn was involved.

What people want who complain about the prequels or the sequels, or the special editions is the feeling Star Wars gave them as a child. Similar to everyone's first Doctor is their favorite. EVeryone's favorite Star Wars is what they grew up with it.