Jon Jay

Furthermore, I hate the Cardinals. If we trade with them they better get royally screwed.
 
So what is too much to get jay why would stl care about trading a bench player? Are you talking majors or minors player?
 
zitothebrave said:
Probably, but Jason will be a much better baserunner and fielder. Even if you don't agree with the value WAR places on defense you cannot deny that Jason isn't much much better in both of those categories.
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Baserunning sure. Defense is a horse of a different color. I'm certain Heyward is great defensively, but I don't know how much better he is at RF than Upton in LF or Freddie at 1b (well mostly just Freddie at 1b).
 
Carp said:
Baserunning sure. Defense is a horse of a different color. I'm certain Heyward is great defensively, but I don't know how much better he is at RF than Upton in LF or Freddie at 1b (well mostly just Freddie at 1b).
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If you don't think Heyward is vastly superior to Freddie defensively, you're watching something totally different. Of the 2 things a 1B is judged on, fielding range and covering the bag. Freddie is above average at the latter, and one of the worse at the former. At best you can call him an average fielder. Maybe a hair above average. Jason is one of the best defensive RFers I've seen. In fact in the UZR era, only Reddick has him beat. He's like Ichiro but can hit better.
 
zitothebrave said:
If you don't think Heyward is vastly superior to Freddie defensively, you're watching something totally different. Of the 2 things a 1B is judged on, fielding range and covering the bag. Freddie is above average at the latter, and one of the worse at the former. At best you can call him an average fielder. Maybe a hair above average. Jason is one of the best defensive RFers I've seen. In fact in the UZR era, only Reddick has him beat. He's like Ichiro but can hit better.
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What measure has Freeman "above average" for covering the bag?
 
zitothebrave said:
If you don't think Heyward is vastly superior to Freddie defensively, you're watching something totally different. Of the 2 things a 1B is judged on, fielding range and covering the bag. Freddie is above average at the latter, and one of the worse at the former. At best you can call him an average fielder. Maybe a hair above average. Jason is one of the best defensive RFers I've seen. In fact in the UZR era, only Reddick has him beat. He's like Ichiro but can hit better.
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But it doesn't measure scooping which is a major component of Freddie's defensive value. And again, it's hard to compare by different positions.
 
Many first basemen are very good at scooping. Freddie is very good at it, but I'm not sure this separates him much from the competition. Is Freddie better at scooping than say Adam LaRoche, another first baseman many of us have had a chance to watch over the years? Is he better than Teixeira? I'm not so sure. They are all quite good at it.
 
Carp said:
But it doesn't measure scooping which is a major component of Freddie's defensive value. And again, it's hard to compare by different positions.
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I bet Jason can scoop. He'd probably scoop better than Freddie.
 
Carp said:
But it doesn't measure scooping which is a major component of Freddie's defensive value. And again, it's hard to compare by different positions.
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As nsacpi pointed out most 1B are great at picking. Would you say for sure he's better than some of ours in the past like Kotchman, LaRoche, or Tex? Do you think he's better than Davis? Or any number of other 1B?
 
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