Looking Ahead - The 2020 Offseason Thread

jpx7 said:
He doesn't have Ozuna's elite EV—Grichuk's has trended down every year, and he's now middle-of-the-pack—but he does have very good xBA, xSLG, and barrel%. Mediocre bb%, but he's improved his k% the last few years. Good sprint speed. Miscast as a CF, but could probably hold down a corner well. Kills fastballs. Wish he were a LHH, but otherwise not a bad profile.

The problem is that he's still owed ~$30m over the next three years, the Braves really could use LHH (hence the Pederson interest), and they have decent OF depth. As the Dodgers argue, more depth is never a bad thing—but, while 2021 would basically be a wash, I'm just not sure he'd be the best use of 2022–23 resources.
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Seems like another version of Duvall.
 
Enscheff said:
If Ender truly has lost all ability to be an average MLB player, just let him sit on the bench being the 5th OFer. If he can’t do that then just cut him loose.

The Braves are past the point where they can waste roster spots swapping bad money around to different positions.
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Obviously the idea would be to find an overpaid guy that fits a need for Atlanta.

I guess a team with a CF need could theoretically be willing to move an expensive veteran they're tired of or don't need to take a flyer on Ender.

Seems more likely the Braves will just have to eat Ender unless they are willing to sweeten a deal with a prospect.
 
Slippyjms said:
Haniger would be the primary DH. Pederson and Duvall would split time in LF. Haniger could move to LF when TDA needs to DH.
On those days that would then leave Pederson or Duvall available to sub in for Pache while Acuna moves over to CF.
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I don't understand why the Mariners are giving up two quality major league players for Austin Riley and the corpse of Ender Inciarte.

Also not sure about comments that and would non-tender Haniger. why would they do that?
 
Southcack77 said:
Obviously the idea would be to find an overpaid guy that fits a need for Atlanta.

I guess a team with a CF need could theoretically be willing to move an expensive veteran they're tired of or don't need to take a flyer on Ender.

Seems more likely the Braves will just have to eat Ender unless they are willing to sweeten a deal with a prospect.
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Thats what I said about Bryant few days back. Ender, Muller, Vodnik type package would fit IMO.
 
Heyward said:
I'm not that high on Wilson, think he's a BP arm, i'd probably do that.
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If Wilson can prove he is capable in the 5th starter role than yeah him and Ender for Bryant is a good match IMO.

Prove his is NOT capable in the 5th
 
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You keep ender. Only play is someone takes him off your hands to save a million like we did with Brandon Phillips.

Otherwise you keep him and use him as your back up cf. maybe use him to keep pache down.

If he’s not worth the roster spot you cut him. You owe him the money. He’s an example of why taking the team friendly deal can work out for the players.
 
Russ2dollas said:
You keep ender. Only play is someone takes him off your hands to save a million like we did with Brandon Phillips.

Otherwise you keep him and use him as your back up cf. maybe use him to keep pache down.

If he’s not worth the roster spot you cut him. You owe him the money. He’s an example of why taking the team friendly deal can work out for the players.
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Note that Pache was on the playoff roster in lieu of Ender. Also consider that the issue of note about keeping players down for the extra year is a huge issue with MLBPA and certain to be big topic in coming CBA.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
Note that Pache was on the playoff roster in lieu of Ender. Also consider that the issue of note about keeping players down for the extra year is a huge issue with MLBPA and certain to be big topic in coming CBA.
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Noted. But that doesn’t change anything.

Strike is coming regardless.
Pache hasn’t faced live pitching in a year. His bat could legitimately need more time. Keeping him down is likely, not crazy.

Pache is on the team to play a particular role in a short season. Ender being on the team in a 162 game season is another situation.

Personally I just hope they cut him and use the roster spot on someone that helps. But teams rarely act that way.
 
Southcack77 said:
Obviously the idea would be to find an overpaid guy that fits a need for Atlanta.

I guess a team with a CF need could theoretically be willing to move an expensive veteran they're tired of or don't need to take a flyer on Ender.

Seems more likely the Braves will just have to eat Ender unless they are willing to sweeten a deal with a prospect.
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I don’t see how the Braves could have an area of need filled by an overpaid player better than the backup CF position. Pache isn’t going to sit the bench to backup CF, so why not the player formerly known as Ender Inciarte? How is having an overpaid player in the BP any better than an overpaid 5th OFer?

There’s just no reason to bend over backwards to dump him.
 
If 2021 is a shortened season then the pending CBA will be ironed out long before 2022 season starts. Lost income on BOTH sides should be incentive enough to get something done quick.
 
Southcack77 said:
I don't understand why the Mariners are giving up two quality major league players for Austin Riley and the corpse of Ender Inciarte.

Also not sure about comments that and would non-tender Haniger. why would they do that?
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Haniger played 63 games in 2019 and 0 this year.
Seager makes a lot of money. the Mariners should be re-building. i think it would take more than Riley/Ender, but it's some insane thing.
 
Enscheff said:
I don’t see how the Braves could have an area of need filled by an overpaid player better than the backup CF position. Pache isn’t going to sit the bench to backup CF, so why not the player formerly known as Ender Inciarte? How is having an overpaid player in the BP any better than an overpaid 5th OFer?

There’s just no reason to bend over backwards to dump him.
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I don't know if you took a flyer on a bullpen guy or some kind of platoon bat at a position of need, it might end up being better.

It's probably moot, because who wants the worst hitter in baseball when he has declined into an average fielder?
 
Southcack77 said:
I don't know if you took a flyer on a bullpen guy or some kind of platoon bat at a position of need, it might end up being better.

It's probably moot, because who wants the worst hitter in baseball when he has declined into an average fielder?
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lolz
but let's keep giving Newcomb starts
 
Enscheff said:
I don’t see how the Braves could have an area of need filled by an overpaid player better than the backup CF position. Pache isn’t going to sit the bench to backup CF, so why not the player formerly known as Ender Inciarte? How is having an overpaid player in the BP any better than an overpaid 5th OFer?

There’s just no reason to bend over backwards to dump him.
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This - and this is likely going to be the most interesting decision to be made this winter.

You're starting to see some of the arms turn the corner (Wright and Wilson), and the glut of others in the high minors is likely going to force you to convert some of them to pen arms (or at the very least break some of them in in the pen) for a little while at least. Even if you use a 6 man rotation in Gwinnett in 2021 you're going to have too many guys - particularly if a veteran SP is brought in to help cover you at the MLB level in the event Soroka's not ready right out of the gate. Newk, Touki, Ynoa, Weigel, Davidson, De La Cruz, Pfeifer, and Muller can't all possibly work as starters in AAA, especially if you're giving Soroka tune-up innings or need to keep Wilson stretched out too. It makes some sense to try to bring one of Melancon or Greene back if the money works out to keep the 6th through 9th as lockdown innings, but there's not much of a reason to bring yet another pen arm in - even if you could get one for Ender (and there doesn't really appear to be one of those out there anyway - go look at the lists).

The interesting part will be whether AA and/or other GMs are nudged towards starting prospects' clocks rather than spending money on free-agent placeholders for them. You're already on the hook for Ender's money, so signing even a MARGINAL guy to replace Inciarte and keep CF warm for Pache for $1 million is a HUGE waste of money when you're trying to cut costs. We're now back to what I've pointed out before - if you aren't convinced already that Pache's bat is going to develop well enough that he's going to be the CF in Atlanta for the next 10 years, why do you give a *hit what he's going to make as a Kiermaier clone 5 years from now? If he's going to turn into a defense-only guy, pay him through his arbitration years (before he starts to lose a step) and let him walk - otherwise you'll just have an overpaid RH-hitting Inciarte 5 years from now.
 
The only problem I have with Ender is determining how wise it is to carry a caddy who is really become overly one-dimensional. Again, I'm old and back in the era of 10-man pitching staffs, teams would carry a third-catcher and a position player (or sometimes two) that were really defensive oriented guys. But when pitching staffs started to grow to 12 or 13, those were the guys who largely went the way of the dinosaur. We're likely going to be paying Ender because I don't see anyone willing to take him off our hands, but he has to do something with the bat to really warrant sticking around. Of course, a lot depends on the construction of the roster around him. If Pache is the everyday CF (and the DH becomes universal), it's not a backbreaker to keep Ender on board. That said, I'm not counting on a rebound from him.
 
If Ender truly has fallen off a cliff then the best he can provide the organization is a bench option until Pache and/or Waters prove ready to force their way into the lineup. At that point whoever is playing the Markakis/Duvall role as bench player pretending to be an everyday player will move to the bench and Ender will be dropped.
 
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