JohnAdcox
Brian Jordan's New BFF
This, this, a thousand times this.
Megathread: Braves lose Maitan, Bae and 10+ plus International Sanctions.
- Thread starter SJ24
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This, this, a thousand times this.
striker42
Well-known member
Sounds like the MLB investigation is done with an announcement due after the world series. Considering Hart is still helming the team and we aren't hearing rumblings that he's going to get fired, I'd guess he'll manage to survive. I have to think the Braves brass has a pretty good idea of what's in the report as well.
My guess is you'll see some shakeup in the scouting ranks, we'll get hit with some pretty harsh penalties, and then we'll move on to hiring the next GM.
My guess is you'll see some shakeup in the scouting ranks, we'll get hit with some pretty harsh penalties, and then we'll move on to hiring the next GM.
BeanieAntics
Arbitration Eligible
Since nobody else is getting canned (ostensibly), I actually have a feeling that the penalties aren't going to be that bad. At worst we may lose the most recent J2 class and get banned from J2 signings for a year or two. In my mind, if nobody else goes, that will be the most likely outcome
This is what I predict as well. Probably not the entire J2 class, just the few guys involved in the shenanigans.
Coppy was scapegoated for an offense that resulted in pretty underwhelming penalties. The Cards, Red Sox and Padres didn't fire their GMs for similar rules violations. Of course, those teams didn't have an internal "dorks vs dinosaurs" war going either.
Nerds vs Neaderthals
Brain Pans vs Brain Deads
Computer Age vs Stone Age
JxnMissFan
Gwinnett Bound
Why hasn't Hart hired someone? With free agency starting so soon after the WS it would make sense to have a GM in place ASAP. I think the chances of Hart being fired are still high.
Nobody worth hiring wants to be Hart's underling.
The Braves aren't going to get anyone worth a damn until Hart is either fired now or allowed to walk away next offseason.
Hopefully then they can hire a modern day GM like McLeod.
chop2chip
Well-known member
Im trying to Understand where this perception of Hart being anti-sabermetrics is coming from. Many of Hart's protégés in Cleveland and Texas were heavily involved in the analytics movement. It's been reported he wanted to hire a bench coach that understands analytics better to help Snit.
I do believe that Coppy was scapegoated, but I think your reasonings are bit more conspiratorial than I would subscribe to.
Swanson was promoted as the result of an off the cuff recommendation by Hart. That's all I need to know about how smart he is.
Decisions of that magnitude should be planned out much more than "Hey, I just stopped into the office on my way to the golf course...you know that kid Swanson? Let's promote him to replace Aybar! OK, see ya guys next week.".
Was just discussing this yesterday as well. Just kinda have to figure that MLB will at least give them some kind of hint as to whether this is going to affect Hart's job (at the very least) even though no announcement has been made so that whomever's left to pick up the pieces can begin putting things back together immediately after the announcement IS made. I can't imagine they're going to withhold information that the league is going to want Hart's head as well - if they can't start the process of hiring the next GM (without having Hart "oversee" things for the interim), they could easily put the Braves a month behind everyone else heading into the offseason.
Whether he ultimately stays with the organization or not, the league could always say "we left you a GM in Hart" if anyone ever bellyached about being handcuffed for weeks having to interview people to step in - at the very least, Hart could steer the ship at the beginning of free-agency until they have an appropriate amount of time to conduct a legitimate interview process so this crap doesn't happen all over again.
striker42
Well-known member
I don't think the presence of Hart is preventing us from getting people to come in and interview at this point because I don't think we've even tried to interview anyone. That being said, I definitely agree that his presence will limit our options.
There are only 30 major league GM jobs so you're going to be able to find plenty of execs out there willing to take the job. But if we're wanting someone in demand then having Hart is a huge negative.
Whether or not someone thinks DM is a good candidate, fact of the matter is he publicly refused the job unless Hart was gone.
I have a hard time believing he is the only potential GM with that point of view.
striker42
Well-known member
To be fair, DM coming here with Hart in place would mean a step down in power for DM. It's hard to convince people to do that.
That being said, there's a good chance there are elite candidates out there that would want full control and so would be excluded by Hart remaining. If Hart stays we're probably looking at either a young guy looking for his chance or a retread looking to get back in the driver's seat.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
I expect that they have people in mind for the job and have touched base with primary targets. At this point it makes sense to wait until the penalty is dropped and then bring in the new GM afterwards. That allows candidates to both know exactly what they are getting into, and avoid any perceived taint from being in charge when the hammer drops.
chop2chip
Well-known member
Setting aside the silliness of that particular move, what you said doesn't denote him being anti-sabermetrics.
Sabermetrics is about finding value. Promoting Swanson was the exact opposite of finding value.
Resort to arguing semantics if you want. It was a terrible move due to a terrible decision making process and I don't need to know anything else about the guy to know I would rather he not be in charge.
striker42
Well-known member
How good or bad the move of promoting Swanson was depends on the yardstick you're measuring by. If you're looking at it through sabermetrics or through the eye of a professional scout wanting to do what's best for a team's on the field chances long term, it was a bad move.
If you're a businessman looking to maximize a player's value to your business enterprise by teaming up the marketing opportunities he offers with the very rare chance to open a new ballpark, then the move was pretty fantastic.
Promoting Swanson was a terrible baseball move but a savvy business move. Usually a good baseball decision is a good business decision because putting a good team on the field is good for business. But when the two don't align, business wins every time. That's true with every GM.
Savvy business move to market around a guy who is then so bad he needs to be sent down? I bet the fans were lining up to see that!
I realize you guys want to spin this stuff as pozzy as possible, but nothing about the Swanson promotion was good.
chop2chip
Well-known member
I don't want him in charge either. I'm just stating that there is no evidence to a dorks vs dinosaur war going on in the front office.
I'm guessing if you're old you don't believe in sabermetrics and if you're young then you do? I'm guessing a millenial came up with that one and ran with it like the baby boomer/millenial argument.
One of the arguments that has been confirmed has been between Billy Ryan who we know is statistically inclined since he created the analytical software we've been using and Coppy. Ryan is 36 and Coppy is 38. I don't think age has as much to do with beliefs as some assume it does.
Then why was Coppy fired, and Hart is still around despite every single story stating there is no way Hart wasn't involved?
Why is Glavine, a proud dinosaur, being considered for a FO position?
Is it really this hard to read between the lines here? Oh wait, that's right, Hart says he was a "stats guy" as the bench coach....and now Weiss is the leading candidate. LOL...ok. Real modern thinkers in the Braves FO!