Neverending **** the Police thread.

sturg33 said:
Yeah.

Not to mention the.multiple black deaths from the riots.

And the impending thousands of black deaths from scary virus spread.

Seems counter intuitive but who knows...
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Certainly strange that many defenders of this movement are more angry at people being angry commenting on the destruction of property/livelihoods & violence than they are at the small amount of bad apples causing the destruction. Those people are hijacking the moment for their own selfish gain.
 
acesfull86 said:
Certainly strange that many defenders of this movement are more angry at people being angry commenting on the destruction of property/livelihoods & violence than they are at the small amount of bad apples causing the destruction. Those people are hijacking the moment for their own selfish gain.
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Brb gotta go find that meme...
 
Metaphysicist said:
Goalposts haven't moved. Racism is systemic in the criminal justice system. Our system of policing, as it currently exists, is bad and harmful to society; this affects all races, but minorities feel it the most. These are basic realities that shouldn't be controversial. The fact that conservatives in this thread refuse to accept these simple facts shows exactly why people are protesting.
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My post is specifically about the justification for riots, not protests. There's a big difference between racism is systemic and cops are gunning down black people. These riots are fueled by the irrational fear of the latter. And by the way, if the latter were true even I could understand the rioting. I find that just saying racism is systemic is a vague concept to the point that it's useless, imo. There's more nuance to it, and the systems need to be broken down. I also find that some or even most racist systems that might exist today or have in the past are done with good intentions (significantly reducing black on black crime). Does that justify rioting? That's a whole different argument, imo.

And speaking about systemic racism in justice and where and how it exists (don't want to turn this into a long thread), I don't think it matters in the end. I suspect we agree on the solutions when it comes to better policing. I'm all for that, because guess what... I agree with you. Policing and justice in this country needs a major overhaul. It's a shame that media makes us think that we are divided about certain things when most people are actually united. Don't forget that your favorite president not only appears to be willing to implement prison reform going forward but he already has. So the political party that you disagree with is implementing some of the policies you want.
 
weso1 said:
My post is specifically about the justification for riots, not protests. There's a big difference between racism is systemic and cops are gunning down black people. These riots are fueled by the irrational fear of the latter. And by the way, if the latter were true even I could understand the rioting. I find that just saying racism is systemic is a vague concept to the point that it's useless, imo. There's more nuance to it, and the systems need to be broken down. I also find that some or even most racist systems that might exist today or have in the past are done with good intentions (significantly reducing black on black crime). Does that justify rioting? That's a whole different argument, imo.

And speaking about systemic racism in justice and where and how it exists (don't want to turn this into a long thread), I don't think it matters in the end. I suspect we agree on the solutions when it comes to better policing. I'm all for that, because guess what... I agree with you. Policing and justice in this country needs a major overhaul. It's a shame that media makes us think that we are divided about certain things when most people are actually united. Don't forget that your favorite president not only appears to be willing to implement prison reform going forward but he already has. So the political party that you disagree with is implementing some of the policies you want.
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I don't think "systemic racism" is vague or useless; it is accurately describing the truth. The criminal justice system, in part by design, affects black people more harshly than white people. That is a system-wide effect. If you need nuance and details just read the WaPo link I posted that collates reams of data for you. Your decision to ignore why people use that term is just a choice you are making to insulate yourself.

Claiming that these protests are just about "gunning down black people" is not based in reality. I have no idea why you think these protests are just so narrowly limited to that. George Floyd wasn't even "gunned down." Regardless, the number of black people killed by cops is of course connected directly to systemic racism. Those deaths are the symptom and people are mad about the disease.

I don't condone violence, and I think anyone taking advantage of the situation to steal iphones or whatever is putting evil into the world. But focusing on the small % of bad actors and labelling everything that's happening as "riots" while ignoring the vast numbers of peaceful protesters just shows me that y'all don't want to pay attention to the underlying issues.

EDIT: I really doubt you agree with me on all the reforms I'd like to see.
 
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sturg33 said:
No change happens until the unions are busted.

[Tw]1268308039561601027[/tw]
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I'm ignorant on a lot of the laws/rules surrounding this. But how ****ing hard would it be to setup a national police database? While it doesn't pertain to this situation exactly I find it extremely ****ed up that a cop can be fired in one town and move somewhere else and continue to be a cop.
 
thewupk said:
I'm ignorant on a lot of the laws/rules surrounding this. But how ****ing hard would it be to setup a national police database? While it doesn't pertain to this situation exactly I find it extremely ****ed up that a cop can be fired in one town and move somewhere else and continue to be a cop.
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Agreed. When I work as a bartender, even we call all the surrounding bars and let them know when we've cut off a crazy drunk person. That was when I worked at bars. Now I only do festivals (and work elsewhere full-time), and we will let the other tents know when it happens.
 
Metaphysicist said:
I don't think "systemic racism" is vague or useless; it is accurately describing the truth. The criminal justice system, in part by design, affects black people more harshly than white people. That is a system-wide effect. If you need nuance and details just read the WaPo link I posted that collates reams of data for you. Your decision to ignore why people use that term is just a choice you are making to insulate yourself.

Claiming that these protests are just about "gunning down black people" is not based in reality. I have no idea why you think these protests are just so narrowly limited to that. George Floyd wasn't even "gunned down." Regardless, the number of black people killed by cops is of course connected directly to systemic racism. Those deaths are the symptom and people are mad about the disease.

I don't condone violence, and I think anyone taking advantage of the situation to steal iphones or whatever is putting evil into the world. But focusing on the small % of bad actors and labelling everything that's happening as "riots" while ignoring the vast numbers of peaceful protesters just shows me that y'all don't want to pay attention to the underlying issues.

EDIT: I really doubt you agree with me on all the reforms I'd like to see.
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I'm specifically talking about people who think rioting and looting are justified and the case for that is typically led by cops killing unarmed blacks. I just assumed you knew I wasn't talking about protesters, most of whom dislike the rioting and looting and many actively trying to stop it. I never labeled the whole thing as riots. The protesters are there for a myriad of reasons. I'm not surprised you don't think you'd agree with me as you seem to be projecting opinions onto me that I don't have. I believe in major reform focused on increasing access to high quality defenders (eventually AI?), more accountable judges (eventually AI?), Strong and effective rehab, mental health care access for all, Heavy development of non lethal weapons eventually to replace guns altogether, significantly defund police and replace with private security that is accountable by the market, end rape and physical abuse in prisons, Allow people to perform volunteer work rather than pay a fine, easier to fire a bad cop, body cams must be on when making an arrest, Extremely strong penalties for those who abuse their power, No more stacking charges to get a guilty plea, etc.
 
Footage was shot May 29th in Denver.
Question isnt why do people riot?
Question should be has it taken so long !!!
/////////////////////////

In black communities this is a day that ends in Y
I certainly hope everyone has gathered this so far




Jake Morphonios Red circle www.blackstoneintel.com
@morphonios
·
18h
This man isn't a protester. He was just a guy sitting at a traffic light

when cops shot his car with a tear gas round. He got out to yell at them

because his pregnant wife is in the vehicle.

So they opened fire on them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268370620418527232
 
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thethe said:
[Tw]1268544328475070468[/tw]
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As usual, folks willingly miss the nuance of any viewpoint other than their own.

I don't think many people say it's OK to destroy property or cause violence in riots. I certainly don't.

I do hear people saying peaceful protests like kneeling during the anthem have been ineffective.

I do hear people saying that a burning building isn't nearly as bad as a dead person.

I do hear people saying that cops being in danger isn't the same as blacks suffering 350 years of systemic racism.

I do hear people saying that cops abusing power is different than criminals killing each other.

I do hear people explaining why the rioting is happening.

I do hear people saying the protesters aren't always the same folks rioting.

I do hear people calling out hypocrites who remained silent as cops killed folks until rioting started...when they were suddenly outraged enough to speak up against rioters.

But whatever, folks are going to keep building straw men arguments to give themselves somethng easy to tear down and make it feel like they are "winning" the argument. The truth is the reckoning is upon us now, and no amount of "yeah but what about" explanations are going to cut it anymore.
 
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uXTVavC.jpg
 
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/06/04/police-groups-joe-biden-300222




If people can agree the police unions are a part of the problem maybe we shouldnt go with the guy those police unions endorsed enthusiastically for 40 years. Biden worked hand in hand with police unions to give cops every right they could think up while stripping you and me of our basic rights. Keep in mind Biden was the biggest advocate for civil asset forfeiture. Now that he has is calling for ANY reform they are turning on him. He is a snake in the grass.
 
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...that-violate-civil-rights-should-lose-federal




Bernie calls for pulling federal funding from police departments that violate civil rights. That's not quite the right idea. Police departments that turn a blind eye to crimes by cops, cover up their crimes, or retaliate against witnesses both civilian and police should lead to defunding. In a perfect world scenario people like the Baltimore Gun Trace Task force that terrorized Baltimore for 10 years would have been caught by their coworkers. If a police department is caught covering up their crimes or retaliating against a witness then it needs to be shut down ASAP. There needs to be zero tolerance for that ****.
 
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