Nothing about the UCSB tragedy?

As for suggestions that I'd personally put forward—leaving aside the access question, along with the obvious need for substantially broader, more accessible and more available and more affordable mental-health supports—I have one that I know won't be popular here, but: I think this country really needs to do a better job educating American males (and white males in particular) that they're not just entitled to ****, whether it be a woman's body or socio-economic privilege or the simple "right" to act out one's inner turmoil and aggression violently against an indiscriminate public. What, exactly, such a pedagogy looks like is difficult to precisely say, but I think the first step—realizing it sounds a bit jejune—is admitting we have a problem.
 
As for suggestions that I'd personally put forward—leaving aside the access question, along with the obvious need for substantially broader, more accessible and more available and more affordable mental-health supports—I have one that I know won't be popular here, but: I think this country really needs to do a better job educating American males (and white males in particular) that they're not just entitled to ****, whether it be a woman's body or socio-economic privilege or the simple "right" to act out one's inner turmoil and aggression violently against an indiscriminate public. What, exactly, such a pedagogy looks like is difficult to precisely say, but I think the first step—realizing it sounds a bit jejune—is admitting we have a problem.

I agree with a lot of this, but it's a little hard for a country whose government entitles a lot of people to a lot of **** to tell people they're not entitled to ****. Human nature in general, or at least American human nature, is feeling entitled to ****.
 
As for suggestions that I'd personally put forward—leaving aside the access question, along with the obvious need for substantially broader, more accessible and more available and more affordable mental-health supports—I have one that I know won't be popular here, but: I think this country really needs to do a better job educating American males (and white males in particular) that they're not just entitled to ****, whether it be a woman's body or socio-economic privilege or the simple "right" to act out one's inner turmoil and aggression violently against an indiscriminate public. What, exactly, such a pedagogy looks like is difficult to precisely say, but I think the first step—realizing it sounds a bit jejune—is admitting we have a problem.

I think entitlement is such a small piece of the puzzle, I don't see it doing much good in preventing school shootings. It might have helped with Elliot but what about the rest of them? Most of the kids who shoot up their schools are either mentally ill or bullied to the point where they snap. Kids are always going to be mean to each other because they haven't fully developed empathy yet. Even if your parents teach to to treat people the way you want to be treated, you still can't connect all those dots in every situation at a young age. I think the anti bullying campaigns that have been coming out are great but you're never going to get rid of it because kids are always going to be kids. You can't make them think like full grown adults so this will always happen.

You can educate and make people better aware of it but I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of the rapists and murderers out there know that rape and murder is bad, yet they choose to do it anyway. You can't get into everyone's head and fix everything.
 
As for suggestions that I'd personally put forward—leaving aside the access question, along with the obvious need for substantially broader, more accessible and more available and more affordable mental-health supports—I have one that I know won't be popular here, but: I think this country really needs to do a better job educating American males (and white males in particular) that they're not just entitled to ****, whether it be a woman's body or socio-economic privilege or the simple "right" to act out one's inner turmoil and aggression violently against an indiscriminate public. What, exactly, such a pedagogy looks like is difficult to precisely say, but I think the first step—realizing it sounds a bit jejune—is admitting we have a problem.

Agree. Part of the problem is our affluence. In addition, and I know this won't be popular here either, but we really need to give more thoughtful consideration culturally of the role that popular entertainment is playing in all this.
 
Link


While the mass media spends their time turning a Hollywood psychopath into a celebrity, they'll completely ignore this story about another 22-year-old Californian with a gun. Unlike the jackass who went on a killing spree, this 22-year-old from California used his gun to defend his three siblings from multiple armed intruders.
 
Link



While the mass media spends their time turning a Hollywood psychopath into a celebrity, they'll completely ignore this story about another 22-year-old Californian with a gun. Unlike the jackass who went on a killing spree, this 22-year-old from California used his gun to defend his three siblings from multiple armed intruders.

I've been told on this board that's impossible unless we are talking about a movie.
 
As for suggestions that I'd personally put forward—leaving aside the access question, along with the obvious need for substantially broader, more accessible and more available and more affordable mental-health supports—I have one that I know won't be popular here, but: I think this country really needs to do a better job educating American males (and white males in particular) that they're not just entitled to ****, whether it be a woman's body or socio-economic privilege or the simple "right" to act out one's inner turmoil and aggression violently against an indiscriminate public. What, exactly, such a pedagogy looks like is difficult to precisely say, but I think the first step—realizing it sounds a bit jejune—is admitting we have a problem.

I don't see any point making a distinction.
 
Interesting info (if true) on mass murders, murders and suicides:

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hanged himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hanged himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hanged herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hanged herself in her family’s detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school…
 
If the info I provided is accurate then a common denominator in all these stories is the use/role of psychotropic drugs. It would be interesting to see a study on how Western countries with ready access to these drugs prescribe and use them. Big pharma really pushes their use here in the US. Do other Western nations use them in a comparable way?
 
Very good question. But let me turn it around --- what are your suggestions to controlling mental health.

Mine would be cradle to grave universal / sponsored by our civilization (which is the word used to describe our government subsidized by tax dollars) health care. Both mental and physical (as if there were a difference).
Can't recall your specific stances on health care policy.

Until we get our society around that nut, let's make buying weapons and ammunition harder than licensing a dog

But many of these mass murderers have been receiving psychological health care. Might that actually be a part of the problem? The kind of care they are receiving?

And in this last case let's not forget that it took place in a state with some of the most restrictive gun laws and in a gun-free zone - a campus.

In other words, I'm not sure your prescription is actually getting to the problem.
 
i am not saying some people didn't die from a knife in this situation

what i am "laughing" at is trying to compare a knife to a gun etc

Any time something bad happens with guns, gun advocates panic and start the comparison games. Most of the comparisons are pretty stupid, spoons, oceans, burgers, etc...

But I totally agree with is the comparison of guns/knives. Apples and oranges.
 
But many of these mass murderers have been receiving psychological health care. Might that actually be a part of the problem? The kind of care they are receiving?

And in this last case let's not forget that it took place in a state with some of the most restrictive gun laws and in a gun-free zone - a campus.

In other words, I'm not sure your prescription is actually getting to the problem.

My prescription is tax the tar out of ammunition and weapons by making the manufacturers accountable for how their product is used / misused. A person can take all the drugs they want but if there is no gun to shoot or bullets to load, there is no shooting. I don't think they should be outlawed but they should be harder to find and manufacturing wise not as plentiful.
Go to the source

Yes, there is also a common thread of mental illness tied to Big Pharma. But, I don't see ANYONE proposing how we get around that. Again, that will take genrations to solve. Hell, it took generations to become the problem it is and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
At this point in time, in this context, mental health is nothing more than a distraction. Like a birth certificate or death panels

No one is trying or proposing any solutions. Speaks volumes

How you going to break up Big Pharma?
Have you voted for people that are willing to take them on?
 
If you want to pass the blame, pass it to everyone in the scenario. Blame the bullies who bully. Blame the schools who

Don't punish bullies. Blame the parents of the bullies if they don't hold Thier kids accountable. Blame the girls who led the guys on, knowing full well they don't like them. Blame the parents if they don't lock up Thier guns.

White kids don't wake up one day and shoot up schools for no reason. Fix the problems in the school and in the kids head, that would solve that problem

Kids in preschool know that stealing, fighting, lying, and killing people is wrong. Hold the person accountable.

Maybe, just maybe liberals should hold people accountable for Thier actions and not use tragedies for political agendas, that look to ban this and that and blame others.
 
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