Official 2017 Trade Deadilne Thread

Super said:
Is Quintana a stud pitcher though?
And I'd be fine with it if it were later in this process. I think by next trade deadline, this team will be more legit and ready for it.
If you trade a few of the pitching prospects now and the guys you keep are the ones who end up getting hurt and flaming out, well now suddenly there isn't much depth and by 2020 you're back in the same spot we were 2-3 years ago.
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Since June 6th (40 IP)...2.48 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 45/16 K/BB.

Those starts came at Tampa, at Cleveland, at Toronto, at Minnesota, against the Yankees, against Texas, and at Colorado.

Is he a stud? That term needs to be defined better, because everyone seems to have differing opinions. He's given you 200+ IP for five straight seasons with a career 3.51 ERA and career 3.52 FIP (115 ERA+). That number is likely to drop by a half a run if he moves to the NL. Teheran has had only two seasons with 200+ IP, a career 3.54 ERA and career 4.03 FIP (109 ERA+).

Is he a "stud" when you measure him against Kershaw, Sale, or Scherzer? Of course not, but he and a developing Folty would suddenly make Julio a distant #3. Wright could make Julio a #4 by late next season, and if Newcomb turns the corner that's as deep a staff as there is.

Funny thing about "Aces" - there aren't many of them with rings.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
4. 2B - Nice to have Albies. He should be a good player. BUT, his place on a team is as a LO hitter who's going to set the table. The Braves already have that in Inciarte (and potentially Swanson). Albies is fine as a long term piece but unless he turns into Altuve, Kipnis, Pedroia, Cano, Baez, Odor, LeMahieu, etc. then he is going to be just an "ok" 2B. Think Brandon Drury or Joe Panik. If, I say IF, the Braves believe they MUST trade a minor league bat of consequence, it has to be Albies. (Things change of course if Swanson isn't here and Albies could play either short or second).
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I'm not coming to any conclusion about the power of a 20-year old with an elite hit tool. We've seen power develop in these types of guys plenty of times, and Albies is already showing it a s 20-year old in AAA. I don't see him as a 5-10 homer guy.
 
Enscheff said:
They wouldn't. The point is they would be much more willing to take a package of Allard and DPete because they would value DPete more than most other teams.

As long as the Braves don't trade Albies, Acuna or Maitan for pitching, I can't get too mad at any deal that improves the MLB team for 2018 and beyond. I consider Wright the best pitching prospect in the system, but I could even live with him being part of the cost for a pitcher like Q or Archer.

I may disagree with upgrading the roster this year at the deadline, but buying Q now won't be astronomically more expensive than buying him in the offseason. The Braves will be needlessly assuming risk, but it's at least a defensible, albeit inefficient, move.

I would prefer they don't buy ANY SPs, but if they do, it won't be a terribly inefficient use of resources as long as they don't use Albies, Acuna or Maitan to do it.
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Very cool post. Agree wholeheartedly.
 
Preacher said:
why? Whats done is done.

Every team could probably point to a deal or two and say 'imagine if'.
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My point was there was a hefty, hefty, hefty price to pay for trying to accelerate the rebuild.

Unless we can trade quantity over quality, we should stay quiet.

I don't really trust Coppy on the "big trades"
 
Horsehide Harry said:
If you are looking at Braves needs, my opinion of the order is:

1. 3B- It doesn't look like their is a real 3B in the entire organization right now. Of course guys like Rio, Riley, etc. may eventually develop. But right now, they are struggling and don't show any overwhelming traits that says they will eventually break out.



2. OF - Acuna and Inciarte appear to be part of the long term solution. But there isn't really anything real above the GCL that you can count on moving forward as part of a long term core. Pache is going to be trade bait since his upside is essentially Inciarte and his bat doesn't play on the corners.

3. C - Yes Flowers has been a revelation and Suzuki has played well but neither are part of the long term future. Flowers is essentially Greg Olson.

4. 2B - Nice to have Albies. He should be a good player. BUT, his place on a team is as a LO hitter who's going to set the table. The Braves already have that in Inciarte (and potentially Swanson). Albies is fine as a long term piece but unless he turns into Altuve, Kipnis, Pedroia, Cano, Baez, Odor, LeMahieu, etc. then he is going to be just an "ok" 2B. Think Brandon Drury or Joe Panik. If, I say IF, the Braves believe they MUST trade a minor league bat of consequence, it has to be Albies. (Things change of course if Swanson isn't here and Albies could play either short or second).

5. SP - If the Braves have spent 3 rebuilding years stockpiling pitching but still feel the need to deal for - not a superstar but a good 2, someone like Q, then the rebuild has failed to a certain extent. You have to remember that Albies and Acuna were here at the beginning of the rebuild. Players brought back in return for talent shipped away have been guys like: Wilser, Blair, Folty, Fried, Touki, Gohara, Newcomb, Sanchez, etc. Right now Folty is an erratic #3 and Newcomb is an iffy 4/5. Everything else is either a bust OR still in development. The drafted guys don't have much to do with trading talent away and have more to do with having a terrible record and drafting (we hope) wisely. If you can trade some of the bust talent or selected still in development talent, then I think you look at that. But, to trade away your drafted talent, when the traded-for talent has been so mediocre is a recipe for disaster.
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I'm not aware of any rumored 3B or C that are available via trade or FA that move the needle. In two years you have Donaldson and Machado. MAYBE Donaldson's price is too high and they move him. But Toronto has a ton more money than the Braves so if they can't afford Donaldson....

The SP upgrade makes some sense b/c there are some options out there.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
If you are looking at Braves needs, my opinion of the order is:

1. 3B- It doesn't look like their is a real 3B in the entire organization right now. Of course guys like Rio, Riley, etc. may eventually develop. But right now, they are struggling and don't show any overwhelming traits that says they will eventually break out.



2. OF - Acuna and Inciarte appear to be part of the long term solution. But there isn't really anything real above the GCL that you can count on moving forward as part of a long term core. Pache is going to be trade bait since his upside is essentially Inciarte and his bat doesn't play on the corners.

3. C - Yes Flowers has been a revelation and Suzuki has played well but neither are part of the long term future. Flowers is essentially Greg Olson.

4. 2B - Nice to have Albies. He should be a good player. BUT, his place on a team is as a LO hitter who's going to set the table. The Braves already have that in Inciarte (and potentially Swanson). Albies is fine as a long term piece but unless he turns into Altuve, Kipnis, Pedroia, Cano, Baez, Odor, LeMahieu, etc. then he is going to be just an "ok" 2B. Think Brandon Drury or Joe Panik. If, I say IF, the Braves believe they MUST trade a minor league bat of consequence, it has to be Albies. (Things change of course if Swanson isn't here and Albies could play either short or second).

5. SP - If the Braves have spent 3 rebuilding years stockpiling pitching but still feel the need to deal for - not a superstar but a good 2, someone like Q, then the rebuild has failed to a certain extent. You have to remember that Albies and Acuna were here at the beginning of the rebuild. Players brought back in return for talent shipped away have been guys like: Wilser, Blair, Folty, Fried, Touki, Gohara, Newcomb, Sanchez, etc. Right now Folty is an erratic #3 and Newcomb is an iffy 4/5. Everything else is either a bust OR still in development. The drafted guys don't have much to do with trading talent away and have more to do with having a terrible record and drafting (we hope) wisely. If you can trade some of the bust talent or selected still in development talent, then I think you look at that. But, to trade away your drafted talent, when the traded-for talent has been so mediocre is a recipe for disaster.
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1.Not to question your acumen and maybe Olson's defense was solid enough to balance off his deficiency in offense when compared to Flowers. And I love my fellow Minnesotan Greg Olson.

2. Wish we could have hung on to Drury, but given our inability to graduate a ton of hitters, maybe it's better that Drury found his way to better minor league coaching. I would certainly take Drury's .799 OPS at a couple of positions in Atlanta.
 
I've decided that if any former brave ever goes on to have any success there is gonna be at least one person upset about it.

Win every trade utterly and completely. You have your marching orders.
 
Super said:
I'm not coming to any conclusion about the power of a 20-year old with an elite hit tool. We've seen power develop in these types of guys plenty of times, and Albies is already showing it a s 20-year old in AAA. I don't see him as a 5-10 homer guy.
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the idea that Albies is less valuable to the team since we already have Inciarte to lead off doesn't hold water. the two are potentially a very dynamic combination at the top of the order.
 
I am pretty much in the camp that is willing to trade any pitching prospect the Braves have for established major leaguers with good contracts.

Braves have a lot of needs but I don't see any reason why a successful rebuild dictates that they have to be filled internally.

Still must be careful to be sure you've filled your holes and have a healthy system going forward.

But in all honesty, Atlanta could trade four of their best five or six pitching prospects and still have a credible foundation to draw from going forward.
 
nsacpi said:
the idea that Albies is less valuable to the team since we already have Inciarte to lead off doesn't hold water. the two are potentially a very dynamic combination at the top of the order.
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That's right. Also, why couldn't Albies beat Ender out?
 
nsacpi said:
the idea that Albies is less valuable to the team since we already have Inciarte to lead off doesn't hold water. the two are potentially a very dynamic combination at the top of the order.
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Correct. Neither does the idea that he's a 2B and therefore somehow less important.
 
TheBravos said:
THIS and if we trade for Quintana, we will be saying the SAME thing down the road. He is a solid starter, but even isn't a game changer.
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Not sure you can equate getting Olivera and getting Quintana. I hate the HO trade, but it remains to be seen if Alex Wood would have had the same success with us. Different player development/coaching. And as much as I love our team and as much of a Pozzie as I am, I don't have the greatest faith in our player development department.
 
zbhargrove said:
Not sure you can equate getting Olivera and getting Quintana. I hate the HO trade, but it remains to be seen if Alex Wood would have had the same success with us. Different player development/coaching. And as much as I love our team and as much of a Pozzie as I am, I don't have the greatest faith in our player development department.
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When you give up multiple prospects for one player, you have a much higher chance of the loosing the trade. He is past 32 years old and has a bunch of innings on his arm. He would have to pitch well for a while to merit giving up what has been discussed. Take Shelby Miller. Blair might bomb, Dansby may "could" end up being average...but Inciarte is the man. We had THREE chances to win that trade. Let says Shelby pitched well last year and then this year up until the injury. Once he had TJ...game over. They had one player that HAD to stay healthy, and when it's a pitcher...odds are even worse. Is we were trading for a hitter I would feel better than trading for a pitcher in his 30's. Heck...he barely even fits our timeline.

The Dodgers and Astros were patient and it's paying off. The Red Sox weren't but they have a massive payroll. This would be a monumental bad idea, and although it probably would be HO trade bad (Quintana is a good pitcher)...prospect loss wise...It could even be worse.
 
TheBravos said:
When you give up multiple prospects for one player, you have a much higher chance of the loosing the trade. He is past 32 years old and has a bunch of innings on his arm. He would have to pitch well for a while to merit giving up what has been discussed. Take Shelby Miller. Blair might bomb, Dansby may "could" end up being average...but Inciarte is the man. We had THREE chances to win that trade. Let says Shelby pitched well last year and then this year up until the injury. Once he had TJ...game over. They had one player that HAD to stay healthy, and when it's a pitcher...odds are even worse. Is we were trading for a hitter I would feel better than trading for a pitcher in his 30's. Heck...he barely even fits our timeline.

The Dodgers and Astros were patient and it's paying off. The Red Sox weren't but they have a massive payroll. This would be a monumental bad idea, and although it probably would be HO trade bad (Quintana is a good pitcher)...prospect loss wise...It could even be worse.
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Quintana is 28 bro. It all depends on the prospects.
 
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