Official Fire Fredi Thread
- Thread starter Millwood1Hitter
- Start date
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
I don't have a strong opinion of Gonzalez either way to be honest. But, unless the Braves completely bomb (when I say bomb, I mean winning fewer than 65 game this season), I don't see him getting fired. Lets be honest here. This Atlanta Braves team right now is one that any manager would have trouble taking to the postseason. It's not a great team and anyone, Braves fan or not, should see it. If they win 85 games this season, Gonzalez should be Manager of the Year. Of course, the chances of that are not great, but it illustrates how different this team is right now.
I'm not advocating Fredi Gonzalez to be fired, nor am I advocating him to come back in 2016. Instead, I'm going to see how this season plays out before my feelings are confirmed. I would suggest all Braves fans do the same. Simply because of looking at the Braves roster now as compared to the last few seasons.
I'm not advocating Fredi Gonzalez to be fired, nor am I advocating him to come back in 2016. Instead, I'm going to see how this season plays out before my feelings are confirmed. I would suggest all Braves fans do the same. Simply because of looking at the Braves roster now as compared to the last few seasons.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
No one is saying Fredi is the ONLY flaw.
No but folks act like if he were gone all would be fixed.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
Name one person who acts like that. Wren doesn't count.
Millwood1Hitter
Anytime Now Frankie...
Yes please get rid of this clown!
Should have done it Tuesday night - it's absolutely his fault that the kids in the bullpen got shelled. If they'd have done it then, Fredi wouldn't have kept Wood from throwing strikes with his fastball last night.
Exactly what in the *ell do you think anybody else could do with this team? People scream they want to see KJ playing instead of Gomes and he strikes out 3 times and makes an error. He's playing Pierzynski every day instead of developing Bethancourt. He's apparently taken Cahill out of the rotation.
Here's a look at the BEST we have as a starting lineup right now...
RF- Markakis (.338/.443/.378/.822)
SS- Simmons (.259/.310/.383/.693)
1B- Freeman (.296/.352/.531/.883)
C- Pierzynski (.422/.442/.689/1.131)
3B- Johnson (.286/.340/.381/.721)
2B- Callaspo (.273/.339/.364/.702)
LF- KJ (.269/.327/.511/.838)
CF- Maybin (.175/.283/.400/.683)
SP- Miller (2.05 ERA/1.09 WHIP/.192 BAA)
SP- Stults (4.03 ERA/1.16 WHIP/.247 BAA)
SP- Wood (4.03 ERA/1.48 WHIP/.288 BAA)
SP- Teheran (4.67 ERA/1.56 WHIP/.294 BAA)
You want Peterson in there, but that makes us worse at 2 positions - you say he makes us better defensively, yet Callaspo has made more errors than Johnson. You want speed in there? Playing Young makes us weaker - wherever he plays.
The rotation - namely Teheran and Wood - has sucked, and those two aren't pitching up to expectations. Just as Chip and Joe kept mentioning last night, we're the ONLY MLB team that hasn't had a starter go 7 innings deep yet. You scream that Teheran's hurt, yet Julio denies it and wants the ball every fifth day. He tries to cover the holes in the pen by running Martin and Johnson out there EVERY night, wearing them out to the point that neither are available at the same time so he has no choice but to use the other relievers.
This team is what it is, and there's no other Manager out there that would make it any better. Improvement has to come incrementally. Simmons seems to be improving. KJ has proven useful in spots. Miller has been as advertised (and the best Pitcher we've had). Grilli and Martin have been great. You want Heyward back? Markakis has been FAR better. You want Gattis back? Bethancourt has been as good and Pierzynski has been FAR better.
Since McDowell has turned Teheran and Wood into #5 SPs and Seitzer hasn't turned these guys into All-Stars, you might want to think about firing them as well. I'm sorry, but he's not the one throwing cement mixers up there or booting the ball all over the place recently. This is what a 70-75 win team looks like, and there's nothing he can do about it UNTIL he gets better players. Of course most of you don't want those guys promoted.
People don't want to fire Fredi because they think it will make anything better this year. They want to fire him because he sucks. He is part of the culture that has led this team to two huge September collapses. The Braves FO talked about redoing everything this winter and getting back to "The Braves Way" Letting Fredi go should be apart of that.
Personally I don't care if he is the manager this year or next year. But he needs to go by the time the Braves seriously want to contend again.
Personally I don't care if he is the manager this year or next year. But he needs to go by the time the Braves seriously want to contend again.
Agreed. Once he gets more to work with - Folty, a CF, Peraza, some semblance of a deeper pen, sign a couple free-agents this winter, etc. and they're this bad and you want him gone, I doubt you'll hear ANYBODY disagree with getting rid of him.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Just to toss something out there for your consideration—do you think it's possible that Fredi is not the reason for this team's poor performance AND that he is a poor in-game manager who may not be the best guy to lead a young team back to contention?
Do you think he's a net positive?
Do you think he's a net positive?
sturg33
I
Fredi had plenty of talent in 2014 and and 2012.. and led those teams to epic collapses
sturg33
I
Fredi is doing what he should be doing - trying to win. This is the last year of his contract. That's why he is going to play the hot hand instead of the future pieces.
He is neither good at "trying to win", nor is he alligned with the organizational goals. Just the wrong man at the wrong time
I'm not sure I think he's either a net-positive or a net-negative. He makes some moves that I question along with everyone else at times, but so does every Manager - whether they're perceived as "good" or "bad". I do think he's had an awfully tough personnel situation to deal with when so many of the higher-paid assets have grossly underperformed (Uggla, Melvin/B. J./Heyward/and others), but he was handed those players - I do think he's done a pretty good job at handling those clubhouses without losing the teams, but that's not to say others might not be able to handle it as well as he has.
Overall I'd guess my perception of him is he's been OK - he doesn't "hurt" the team, but he's nothing special and tends to mirror Bobby by being overwhelmingly positive as well as old school as opposed to utilizing more numbers-based information. Of course the organization as a whole is generally that way. I don't think he's done anything major to particularly disagree with (as many here do) and certainly nothing to deserve to be fired for, but I wonder at times if a new voice and approach might help as well. I was really big on giving someone like Varitek a shot when Wren was chased because I'd like to see someone with more fire that wasn't afraid of holding players more responsible for their performances.
sturg33
I
So two major late season collapses doesn't deserve to get you fired?
Also - the guy basically never defends his players, in the games or in the press. If you're terrible at the strategy (which he is), you better be a great leader (which he is not)
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
I don't disagree with any of this you state as reasons to fire Fredi. But it doesn't include the main reason he should be fired IMO. The main reason for me is because he's brutal on a bullpen and already ended too many relievers careers in a short time (including my boy Venters most likely). I have never seen anyone worse on a bullpen than Fredi and it's not just how often he pitches them, it's the warming them up every day they don't pitch for long stretches too. That has been cited by or noted about multiple pitchers he's broken (including Venters, Linebrink, Martinez, Gearrin).
Nope.
Sorry that some of just don't want to call any of the players out, but that wasn't Fredi that hit .169/.233/.325/.559 with a 33% K-rate last September and October - that was Justin Upton. That was Heyward putting up an MVP-like .235/.325/.310/.635 line up during the last month of 2014, not Gonzalez. And on and on.
sturg33
I
You are delusional
Millwood1Hitter
Anytime Now Frankie...
I don't see how anyone can defend Fredi at this point. I really don't. He's not good, hell he's not even below average....he's well below average.
And I hate to sound like a broken record, but the guy doesn't have one strength. Not ONE! Again we can questions his in game decesions, his lineup, his bullpen or pitcher usage and that is all negliable. But the guy is a complete bafoon and fails night after night. The collapses in September. His bullpen usage is bizarre and he has ruined a number of pitchers. Lineup construction is awful. No brainer decesions like leaving Tehran in to get another out or 2 instead of looking at the big picture. Listen to the guy talk and he just doesn't seem to be all there.
But my biggest gripe is his leadership. You could question Bobby and some of the decesions he made, but there is one thing that was guarenteed night after night, no matter who was on the field...Bobby had their back and they had his back. They would scrap and fight to the bitter end. Have you seen that the last few seasons under Fredi? I haven't. My biggest issue with last year's team, despite the shortcomings and the unbalanced roster, as it was pretty apparent early in the season that this team was dead. They had no fight. They didn't even appear to care that they we're on the field and it got gradually worse throughout the year. With Bobby, it didn't matter...he could run out their his Sunday matinee backup parade with Lockhart, Julio, Matt Franco, Darren Bragg, and Henry Blanco out there and each and every one of those guys would give it their all til the bitter end and try to win.
And I've always thought that ego and clubhouse management was the biggest trait that one needs to be a coach or manager at the higher levels. There have been a number of coaches or managers throughout the year's that we're average x's and o's guy but still managed to get the best out of the individual talents that resulted in team success. Bobby Cox was that guy. Coach K is that guy. Gregg Popovich & Bill Billichick are those guys. Joe Torre was that guy. They get the best out of everyone, and they build a team. I haven't seen anything in that regard to Fredi. That good and talented 2010 team scraped and fought to the bitter end in 2010 with backups and backups to the backups and still managed a way to get in the playoffs and win a few games, and we're close to putting the Giants on the brink. The 2001 team wasn't very good and decimated with injuries but scaped and clawed and managed a way to keep the streak going. The ball just kept a rolling even after Maddux & Glavine we're gone. We've seen 2 September collapses under Fredi that we're beyond bad. A loss here and there and the ball kept a rolling and the train was off the tracks. That 2012 team was lead by an ungodly streak in Medlen, and the 2013 showing in the playoffs was beyond pathetic. And then there was last year. Everytime, where was the passion? Where was the leader saying this isn't going to happen. Fredi's attitude: tip your cap and go get them tomorrow! Yeah, that doesn't work. Bobby was somewhat the same, but he approached it much differently in that he used it to build confidence so that player could go out and perform better tomorrow.
He doesn't seem to support his players on and off the field. If the umpire makes a bad call, oh well, he's the empire he can do whatever he wants...I think he was right. Ho hum. The injustice that was served in the 2012 play in game was absurb, but Fredi just stood there and took it. Any other manager or coach and the issue would have pushed to the limit. Probably doesn't change things, but it does change the outlook going forward knowing they had their back. And then their was the biggest sin of all, not using Kimbrel (the best reliever or pitcher in the game) in a freakin elimination game. Yeah, that's a way to instill confidence in the troops! But hey, leadership is built by getting a brick busted on your fat belly! Absolute joke.
Again, I don't give a rat's ass about this year...it's a bad roster, it's a lost season, but hopefully we're building and looking towards the future and trying to build a contender. I don't care about wins and losses. I'd just like to see a semblence of organization, confidence, and focus on development for the future. I don't see any of that.