Official official offseason thread

I was passing by MLB last night and caught a bit of the documentary about the rise of the Braves.. Showing the 93 series and the broadcast was touting that each player gets 75K for winning the series..

I didn't finish watching it because I knew how it ended... basically Cox sitting and doing nothing while 6 HOF lost series after series.
 
Since winning the World Series, AA had the market dictate $339 million as the compensation for Freddie and Dansby; an average of $26.14 per season as they age. AA let them walk and instead gave out an average of roughly $16 million per season to tie up Olson (8 years), Riley (10), Harris (8) and Murphy (6) during what should be the prime of their careers. Hard for me to understand any argument that wasn't the right move given the limitations of the farm systems as a result of the sanctions and the luxury tax.
 
CyYoung31 said:
If we’re going by only his rookie season (which is all we have to go on) he is an elite starter. His rookie campaign was near historic.
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If you rank every pitcher with 500+ PAs (an arbitrary threshold selected because it's the largest number Strider meets), Strider was #1 in all MLB in xwOBA at .242. So in that sense there is no denying he was elite last year.

Of course, there are many caveats:

- Strider only started 20 games, and came out of the BP for 11 games. Going max effort as a BP arm allowed him to push that overall xwOBA down. His xERA as a SP (2.77) was worse than Fried's (2.43). Out of the BP Strider posted an xERA of 2.22, so you can see how those max effort innings helped lower his overall numbers.

- #2 on that list is Cristian Javier at .244, who I'm sure most on this board don't think is elite (or have even heard of him). Like Strider, he is a SP/BP hybrid who benefitted from that type of usage.

- #7 on that list is Nestor Cortez. Who? Exactly. Another SP/BP hybrid who made a lot of starts in 2022. Are folks calling him elite?

So yes, Strider had a great 2022. But let's not jump the gun calling him elite until he does it for 1-2 full seasons of 30+ starts....like Fried has.
 
Enscheff said:
If you rank every pitcher with 500+ PAs (an arbitrary threshold selected because it's the largest number Strider meets), Strider was #1 in all MLB in xwOBA at .242. So in that sense there is no denying he was elite last year.

Of course, there are many caveats:

- Strider only started 20 games, and came out of the BP for 11 games. Going max effort as a BP arm allowed him to push that overall xwOBA down. His xERA as a SP (2.77) was worse than Fried's (2.43). Out of the BP Strider posted an xERA of 2.22, so you can see how those max effort innings helped lower his overall numbers.

- #2 on that list is Cristian Javier at .244, who I'm sure most on this board don't think is elite (or have even heard of him). Like Strider, he is a SP/BP hybrid who benefitted from that type of usage.

- #7 on that list is Nestor Cortez. Who? Exactly. Another SP/BP hybrid who made a lot of starts in 2022. Are folks calling him elite?

So yes, Strider had a great 2022. But let's not jump the gun calling him elite until he does it for 1-2 full seasons of 30+ starts....like Fried has.
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To be fair. He was an all-star and was 8th in Cy Voting in 2022. Could be Yankee bias.

But yes, one season means nothing. You have to deliver for 2-3 years before the general baseball world puts you in those categories.
 
Enscheff said:
If you rank every pitcher with 500+ PAs (an arbitrary threshold selected because it's the largest number Strider meets), Strider was #1 in all MLB in xwOBA at .242. So in that sense there is no denying he was elite last year.

Of course, there are many caveats:

- Strider only started 20 games, and came out of the BP for 11 games. Going max effort as a BP arm allowed him to push that overall xwOBA down. His xERA as a SP (2.77) was worse than Fried's (2.43). Out of the BP Strider posted an xERA of 2.22, so you can see how those max effort innings helped lower his overall numbers.

- #2 on that list is Cristian Javier at .244, who I'm sure most on this board don't think is elite (or have even heard of him). Like Strider, he is a SP/BP hybrid who benefitted from that type of usage.

- #7 on that list is Nestor Cortez. Who? Exactly. Another SP/BP hybrid who made a lot of starts in 2022. Are folks calling him elite?

So yes, Strider had a great 2022. But let's not jump the gun calling him elite until he does it for 1-2 full seasons of 30+ starts....like Fried has.
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I would agree we don't know how good Strider will be over a full season or over long term.

That's part of the risk on each side for his extension. Is he really this good? Can he stay healthy? Will there be a third pitch? If he is this good, then he's underpaid.

The good news is he is being paid like a mid rotation guy at 22 million in the future. He's not getting #1 SP money.

When Max leaves, is he going to be the guy to replace him? We shall see. I never thought Max would be this guy either.
 
Enscheff said:
I’m worried about all the extensions other than the Acuna and Albies, and even the Acuna deal is now risky after major knee injury. Olson is a bat only player. Riley is a step above a bat only player. Harris has major platoon issues. Strider is a high velocity pitcher. Murphy is a catcher. These are players with very real risk.

My opinion is AA just as likely extended the next rebuild as he extended the window of contention.
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I think it's funny Braves fans thing these are all great extensions but defend them like crazy online. All other fans think AA is bad for the game or some voodoo.

The reasons they deals were done is that there is risk on both sides.

They could turn to the Dan Uggla deal. They could be very team friendly. With this many deals it's likely there will be a range of outcomes.

Strider was the one that surprised me the most. Mostly b/c he's a pitcher. Then because SSS, lack of alternative pitches and previous TJ. But if he's this guy, or close to this guy it will be a steal.

Catchers are always tough deals. But I do think his youth and numbers away from home are positive.

Olson....I don't like putting that much money into a 1B in general. But I think he's going to be worth that deal.

Riley....a lot of it depends on what you think on his defense, but he's still likely to hit through that deal.

Harris.....I am not going to call him a platoon issue yet. Still a SSS vs LH. He didn't look lost to me, not bailing out. He had such a short amount of time in the minors it is unlikely he saw many high quality breaking balls at all. I was really impressed with his bat. He's also a premium defender at a premium spot. He's also on the best side of a platoon. I feel pretty good about this being a great extension. I'm more into questioning if he's a top third of the order hitter or a bottom third of the order hitter. I could see him being a bottom third of the order hitter and still out earning his contract.
 
The thing w/ Strider this year is going to be the secondaries. I think teams will be able to foul off enough FB to try and get him out of the game in 4-5 innings. If he's going to be an impact guy he has to go deeper in games. Needs to be able to be more efficient while still missing bats.
 
Enscheff said:
If you rank every pitcher with 500+ PAs (an arbitrary threshold selected because it's the largest number Strider meets), Strider was #1 in all MLB in xwOBA at .242. So in that sense there is no denying he was elite last year.

Of course, there are many caveats:

- Strider only started 20 games, and came out of the BP for 11 games. Going max effort as a BP arm allowed him to push that overall xwOBA down. His xERA as a SP (2.77) was worse than Fried's (2.43). Out of the BP Strider posted an xERA of 2.22, so you can see how those max effort innings helped lower his overall numbers.

- #2 on that list is Cristian Javier at .244, who I'm sure most on this board don't think is elite (or have even heard of him). Like Strider, he is a SP/BP hybrid who benefitted from that type of usage.

- #7 on that list is Nestor Cortez. Who? Exactly. Another SP/BP hybrid who made a lot of starts in 2022. Are folks calling him elite?

So yes, Strider had a great 2022. But let's not jump the gun calling him elite until he does it for 1-2 full seasons of 30+ starts....like Fried has.
Click to expand...

I’m not saying he will be elite going forward, just saying he was elite in his first season as a starter.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Well technically we couldn’t afford to make a big move this year when we needed to. So I am not 100% sure this statement is true.
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I think Anthopoulos has basically read the market correctly, but I don't know if that is by accident or design. Ideally, you extend a smaller core and than fill in around that with short-term/high AAV deals, but Anthopoulos didn't see value there (or was dealing with a logjam).
 
CyYoung31 said:
Where is the lie?
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Interesting meaning twist to say he’s already arrived to that status with such a small sample size. I guess we have two different definitions of elite. My list includes guys like deGrom, Burnes, Cole, Buehler, and Woodruff. Again his stuff is great, but he has a ways to go until he’s in that conversation.
 
CrimeDog247 said:
Interesting meaning twist to say he’s already arrived to that status with such a small sample size. I guess we have two different definitions of elite. My list includes guys like deGrom, Burnes, Cole, Buehler, and Woodruff. Again his stuff is great, but he has a ways to go until he’s in that conversation.
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Was he elite last year or not?
 
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