Official Offseason Thread

Heyward said:
Not a surprise, their problems arent manager related, more so FO and roster problems. Gabe wasnt perfect, but he was just the scapegoat of their roster issues.
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While I agree that the GM is incompetent, weren't a lot of his players supposed to be "good" players? Franco and Herrera were once solid prospect are have fallen flat. He had a great 1B, an elite RF, one of the best starters in the game last year and the best catcher in the game. Ya, they needed and should've added pitching at the deadline, but Nola regressed, Efflin regressed Pivetta regressed. Cutch getting injured hurt them a lot, too.

Kapler probably deserved to get canned. Maybe he made better, more analytical calls than someone like Snitker, for instance, but players seem to play better for Snit than Kapler. Kaplers guys seem to under perform.
 
CrazyTrain said:
While I agree that the GM is incompetent, weren't a lot of his players supposed to be "good" players? Franco and Herrera were once solid prospect are have fallen flat. He had a great 1B, an elite RF, one of the best starters in the game last year and the best catcher in the game. Ya, they needed and should've added pitching at the deadline, but Nola regressed, Efflin regressed Pivetta regressed. Cutch getting injured hurt them a lot, too.

Kapler probably deserved to get canned. Maybe he made better, more analytical calls than someone like Snitker, for instance, but players seem to play better for Snit than Kapler. Kaplers guys seem to under perform.
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Their team stinks. It’s pretty simple.
 
God I hate when folks say a player plays harder for X manager. Then we need different players. I don’t want guys who need motivation to play harder. I want a manager who’s job is to put players in the best situation to win and not a pep rally coach. If our guys need twit to run through walls then our guys suck because they should want to run through walls just for the sake of winning.
 
CrazyTrain said:
While I agree that the GM is incompetent, weren't a lot of his players supposed to be "good" players? Franco and Herrera were once solid prospect are have fallen flat. He had a great 1B, an elite RF, one of the best starters in the game last year and the best catcher in the game. Ya, they needed and should've added pitching at the deadline, but Nola regressed, Efflin regressed Pivetta regressed. Cutch getting injured hurt them a lot, too.

Kapler probably deserved to get canned. Maybe he made better, more analytical calls than someone like Snitker, for instance, but players seem to play better for Snit than Kapler. Kaplers guys seem to under perform.
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1. Franco falling short of his prospect status isn't Kapler's fault by any stretch
2. Herrera wasn't a solid prospect. He was a rule 5 guy who succeeded for a few years before steadily falling off. again - not Kapler's fault.
3. Hoskins is not great
4. Harper is not an elite player
5. Nola was not great last year
6. what do pitchers predictably regressing have to do with the manager? the FO should have foreseen and addressed that. again: not Kapler's fault
7. Ah, the good ole' argument of players play for Snitker and they don't for other managers. not a thing can prove it, but let's base decisions on it. what can talent and numbers tell you, anyway?
 
If you fill your team full of guys who have proven they produce, you could have anyone manage that team and it will be successful. Guys like Freeman and Donaldson don't need much managing. They're going to do their work and be ready for the game.

I think where managers make the biggest difference is with young guys and players with marginal work habits. Often, the difference between a young, talented player who busts out and a young, talented player who succeeds is work ethic. Is this kid going to develop the work habits necessary to success? Is he going to go over the reports of opposing pitchers? Is he going to spend the hours in the cage working on his swing? Is he going to spend the offseason in the weight room?

You also have major leaguers who have underperformed their entire careers who need help with those same habits.

That's where I think a skilled manager makes a difference. It's taking those guys with the tools and turning them into complete major leaguers. It's creating the atmosphere that will keep these guys engaged and wanting to work.

It's not about effort on the field. It's about the hours and hours and hours of work off the field and getting guys to do it. Some guys will put in the work no matter the manager, some will refuse to put in the work no matter the manager. It's those guys that need that guidance and leadership that a good manager makes the difference.

And this is true in pretty much any business. Some people will work hard no matter what, some wont, and some will respond to the skill of the manager.
 
Another old guy that might be a fairly cheap under the radar signing could be Brett Gardner. With Tauchman arriving on the scene, you have to figure his days in New York are finally done. Gardner's from Holly Hill, SC - about 250 miles from Atlanta. He put up 3.6 fWAR last season, so there's obviously still plenty left in the tank. He made $7.5 million this year, how much more is someone going to offer him for his age 37 season in 2020? Obviously not a perfect fit, but there really isn't one you're likely to get on a one-year deal. Puig would be ideal (of course), but no one - other than Bowman - honestly thinks he's going to have to settle for a one-year deal do they?

If you're looking for two guys on one year deals to bridge to Pache and Waters, you could likely do worse than picking up Markakis' option (assuming AA sits Snitker down this winter and makes it clear that he is not to start against LHPs) and adding Gardner. A Gardner addition would make it easier to include Ender in a trade if you can get anything of value for him since Gardner could act as your backup CF until Waters or Pache are ready. At that point one of them takes Duvall's roster spot.

Given the limited amount of money to spend, couldn't you argue it might be better to let Donaldson (gaining the comp pick), Keuchel, Flowers, and Joyce walk and replace them with Moustakas, Bumgarner, Grandal, and Gardner? Would make you awfully left-handed, but if Moustakas and Grandal give you roughly the same production (or better) as Donaldson and Flowers, you could force Snitker to platoon Markakis and Duvall.

If you had to choose ONLY one offensive player to give a big AAV deal to this winter, wouldn't you choose Grandal over Donaldson since there are at least other options at 3B?
 
If there is one thing that distinguishes AA it is seeking out value while limiting risks from long-term deals.

This makes me think Cervelli will be a target. He's been a productive catcher over the years but is coming off a down year marked by injury. Shades of Donaldson last year. Maybe a 1 year deal with an option.

Also thinking that Moose might be more likely than Donaldson at third. AAV and maybe years would be lower. Could open up a platoon of sorts at some point with Riley/Camargo.
 
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I love Donaldson and the protection he gave Freeman and it showed in Freeman’s numbers. But the lineup really crapped the bed in the playoffs bc it was weak after JD. The lineup has the be lengthened this offseason and if that means replacing Josh with Moose so we can get Grandal to then so be it. COF will have to be a priority also.
 
Hudson2 said:
I love Donaldson and the protection he gave Freeman and it showed in Freeman’s numbers. But the lineup really crapped the bed in the playoffs bc it was weak after JD. The lineup has the be lengthened this offseason and if that means replacing Josh with Moose so we can get Grandal to then so be it. COF will have to be a priority also.
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Actually the lineup crapped the bed after Acuna in the playoffs. It sucked that hitters (mainly Neck and Joyce) who hit well in certain situations failed to do so in the playoffs.
 
Hudson2 said:
I love Donaldson and the protection he gave Freeman and it showed in Freeman’s numbers. But the lineup really crapped the bed in the playoffs bc it was weak after JD. The lineup has the be lengthened this offseason and if that means replacing Josh with Moose so we can get Grandal to then so be it. COF will have to be a priority also.
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Ummm... during the playoffs JD didn't do anything and aside from Acuna, the top of the lineup did nothing. All of our production came from the guys at the bottom of the lineup.
 
zbhargrove said:
Ummm... during the playoffs JD didn't do anything and aside from Acuna, the top of the lineup did nothing. All of our production came from the guys at the bottom of the lineup.
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i think his overall point is solid tho: if going cheaper at 3B allows you a deeper lineup, it's certainly worth looking into.
 
we'll have a similar team next year...good depth...lots of good young players in AAA, some of whom will at some point come up and contribute to the major league level...the tweaks will be on the order of Cervelli slotting in for McCann and maybe Moose for Donaldson

the decision on Teheran's option will be a tipoff as to whether it will be a status quo offseason or more substantial tinkering....if it is declined then maybe there will be a more extensive rearrangement of the roster...AA loves those one year deals, which makes me think he picks up the options on Teheran, Muk and Flowers
 
nsacpi said:
If there is one thing that distinguishes AA it is seeking out value while limiting risks from long-term deals.

This makes me think Cervelli will be a target. He's been a productive catcher over the years but is coming off a down year marked by injury. Shades of Donaldson last year. Maybe a 1 year deal with an option.

Also thinking that Moose might be more likely than Donaldson at third. AAV and maybe years would be lower. Could open up a platoon of sorts at some point with Riley/Camargo.
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It's pretty clear by now that once JD rejects the QO and it essentially costs the Braves a pick in the 30s to resign him, it is extremely unlikely AA gives him 3+ years. So unless JD is this year's DK/CK asking for way too much and completely tanks his own market, expect to see another team deal with his decline years.

FAs the Braves sign will almost certainly:

1. not have a QO attached (likely including JD)
2. not require more than 1-2 years
3. not be limited by a large AAV in almost any way (within reason)
4. not be an expensive BP arm

Grandal for 1-2 years (or 1 plus an option) at $20M+ per year is possible. Wheeler or MadBum on deals similar to what DK got are both possible if they reject a QO and tank their own markets with unreasonable asks. Puig on a short deal is possible. Gardner makes some sense...as do Markakis and Joyce depending on how other things shake out. Cervelli is clearly an option, as is Jason Castro. Mous is definitely a possible target, actually quite likely. Lower end OF options like Avisail Garcia, and even Pence might make some sense.

AA has shown a willingness to pay premium dollars on short deals to avoid long contracts on declining players. I expect to see more of the same over the next few months.
 
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Pretty much agree with everything with one exception. If the FO knows anymore about a pending deal for NL DH and considering what happens to FF in 2 years I would be inclined to pick up Castellanos on a longer deal thinking about prospects coming and when they will arrive.
 
zbhargrove said:
Our lineup was plenty deep before injuries. Our roster depth was the only reason we were still able to remain a good team.
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i don't think roster depth and starting lineup depth are the same thing.
also, i think the lineup was fine, yes. but it can certainly be made deeper by adding 2 good bats instead of one, and that's not a bad thing to look into.

make it impossible for Snit to plug Markakis into the 5 hole.
 
We might be hitting a point with baseball managers that the jobs a manager has to do require more specialization than a single individual can do. A manager needs to know how to run a staff (not pitching, I'm talking about other coaches), he needs to be able to mentor young players, he needs to be able to mediate disputes in the clubhouse, he needs to be able to handle the media. Simultaneously, we're expecting a manager to be able to understand advanced statistics and apply them to in game situations.

Those are two different skill sets and I think teams neglect each of them at their own peril.

I can see the role of a manager becoming more like the role of a head coach in football with hitting and pitching coaches taking the role of coordinators and the manager essentially being a CEO type. Let the assistants specialize in the data and make many of the strategy calls, let the manager run the club.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
God I hate when folks say a player plays harder for X manager. Then we need different players. I don’t want guys who need motivation to play harder. I want a manager who’s job is to put players in the best situation to win and not a pep rally coach. If our guys need twit to run through walls then our guys suck because they should want to run through walls just for the sake of winning.
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I didn't say "play harder". I said "play better". We've all had good and bad bosses that bring better or worse results. Same philosophy.
 
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Super said:
i don't think roster depth and starting lineup depth are the same thing.
also, i think the lineup was fine, yes. but it can certainly be made deeper by adding 2 good bats instead of one, and that's not a bad thing to look into.

make it impossible for Snit to plug Markakis into the 5 hole.
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I think you misunderstood me... I was not implying roster and lineup depth were the same. I was saying that before Inciarte, Swanson, and Markakis went down with injuries (not to mention an unhealthy Freeman) the lineup was extremely deep and raking. When those guys either didn't come back and/or weren't themselves again of course the lineup wasn't deep. For 3/4 of the year, our lineup was one of the deepest in the NL. I was saying thankfully we also had a very deep roster which kept us playing as a good team.
 
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