Okay hack away about tax income

[thethe]

So that child should just be ****ed because his grandfather had more kids than he should've?

I'm talking about the current generation. The 18-35 year olds should not have children if they couldn't afford it. That is their decision. That is their fault if they are struggling to provide for them. Accountability has to also be attached to them.

 

[thethe]

You do realize your argument boils down to, "You deserve your ****ty life because you were born into a ****ty family," right?

No, my argument is that at some point you must be accountable for your actions. Any of those children can now make better decisions in their lives as they get older instead of repeating the mistakes of their parents. I don't think its an easy road for them to say the least but it can't just be about that the system is continually holding them back without any chance for a better life. At some point the string of bad decisions has to end.

 

[Dalyn]

I'm talking about the current generation. The 18-35 year olds should not have children if they couldn't afford it. That is their decision. That is their fault if they are struggling to provide for them. Accountability has to also be attached to them.

And I'm not talking about those people. I'm firmly in the camp of not having children period and especially not if you can't afford it. I'm talking about their children, or the 18-35 year olds who had chronically unemployed parents with too many children. The system is no longer there for them to climb out of that hole without help. It just isn't.

 

[thethe]

And I'm not talking about those people. I'm firmly in the camp of not having children period and especially not if you can't afford it. I'm talking about their children, or the 18-35 year olds who had chronically unemployed parents with too many children. The system is no longer there for them to climb out of that hole without help. It just isn't.

I'm not in the camp of removing entitlements entirely. I want a strict system that monitors what the money is being spent on and also what the recipients are doing with their lives to better themselves. The assistance in housing payments alone should allow the families to get jobs and provide the bear necessities so that hte next generation is bettered.

No, these people will not become rich but **** I'm not rich either. But, they cna get to a better place as long as one generation is willing to make the sacrifice.

 

[Krgrecw]

You do realize your argument boils down to, "You deserve your ****ty life because you were born into a ****ty family," right?

argument also says 'that our lives to be more ****ty because people can't handle thier own ****'

Which isn't fair to those of us that do the right things

 

[Dalyn]

And you know what that means? They're going to fight and fight until they throw in the towel because everyone in their life throws in the towel and they'll end up in jail or with too many children, and this will continue until the wealthy devourers eat down from the top and the poor devourers eat up from the bottom, and the whole thing will explode when they meet. All because we let a bunch of thieves steal from us and from our parents and from their parents.

 

[thethe]

And you know what that means? They're going to fight and fight until they throw in the towel because everyone in their life throws in the towel and they'll end up in jail or with too many children, and this will continue until the wealthy devourers eat down from the top and the poor devourers eat up from the bottom, and the whole thing will explode when they meet. All because we let a bunch of thieves steal from us and from our parents and from their parents.

There is no question there is a scheme above us all that limits our ceilings and true freedom as to how we want to live our lives. I am not disagreeing with that overarching point.

However, there is still wiggle room. This is not the Indian Caste system of yesteryear. The right decisions can be made to better your situation. Those that give up are giving into the system that you are vociferously trying to stop.

 

[Dalyn]

I'm not in the camp of removing entitlements entirely. I want a strict system that monitors what the money is being spent on and also what the recipients are doing with their lives to better themselves. The assistance in housing payments alone should allow the families to get jobs and provide the bear necessities so that hte next generation is bettered.

No, these people will not become rich but **** I'm not rich either. But, they cna get to a better place as long as one generation is willing to make the sacrifice.

And that generation for a LARGE majority of the poor has already come and gone.

Look at the facts. For the majority of people, the poor in this country have been poor for three generations. The middle class for three generations. The rich for three generations. Why do you think that happens? Because the system now works as hard as possible to keep you wherever you're lucky or unlucky enough to first arrive.

 

[thethe]

And that generation for a LARGE majority of the poor has already come and gone.

Look at the facts. For the majority of people, the poor in this country have been poor for three generations. The middle class for three generations. The rich for three generations. Why do you think that happens? Because the system now works as hard as possible to keep you wherever you're lucky or unlucky enough to first arrive.

If I wanted to work harder than I do now I could have risen classes from lower middle class to upper middle class. It is my decision and will be my decision in the future to work less and live more. I will be better off than my father but I am placing a self imposed ceiling based on what I desire in my life.

 

[Dalyn]

However, there is still wiggle room. This is not the Indian Caste system of yesteryear. The right decisions can be made to better your situation. Those that give up are giving into the system that you are vociferously trying to stop.

Even if you're right, you think the answer is to keep the system in place and hope we have enough poor people make it to the lower middle class to survive rather than fix the system and STOP the stealing? You are all about holding the poor accountable for wanting a family. For wanting more people to try make money to get them out of the **** they've been in their whole life. Hoping that if they have enough children the odds will eventually hit and they'll get the perfect hard working child who will succeed. Or maybe those children will just bring a little happiness into their **** life. But the rich who are stealing and creating this whole mess? Their accountability is second or third. Not that important. Let's focus on the poor, a problem we can't possibly fix without holding the thieves at the top accountable, but ignore that. Let's just keep hitting it.

 

[DirkPiggler]

It is no longer a system where as long as you aren't lazy or incompetent you can work hard and dig out of your birthright. Now it's a system where you can dig out of your birthright if your grandfather wasn't lazy or incompetent. If he was, you're pretty much ****ed unless someone with a better grandfather helps you out.

This is not true at all. I know several people who started out from a crappy background who have made it to at least upper middle class. Some have even bumped themselves into the vaunted 1% that the class warriors like to vilify. All started from nothing or even less, and through hard work, ambition, and being thrifty with their money have made very comfortable lives for themselves.

 

[thethe]

Even if you're right, you think the answer is to keep the system in place and hope we have enough poor people make it to the lower middle class to survive rather than fix the system and STOP the stealing? You are all about holding the poor accountable for wanting a family. For wanting more people to try make money to get them out of the **** they've been in their whole life. Hoping that if they have enough children the odds will eventually hit and they'll get the perfect hard working child who will succeed. Or maybe those children will just bring a little happiness into their **** life. But the rich who are stealing and creating this whole mess? Their accountability is second or third. Not that important. Let's focus on the poor, a problem we can't possibly fix without holding the thieves at the top accountable, but ignore that. Let's just keep hitting it.

I'm fine with discussing the thieves that you are talking about. I posted an article regarding high frequency traders and the abuse of employers in getting free overtime in the past year. Nobody seems to want to discuss those issues.

 

[Dalyn]

If I wanted to work harder than I do now I could have risen classes from lower middle class to upper middle class. It is my decision and will be my decision in the future to work less and live more. I will be better off than my father but I am placing a self imposed ceiling based on what I desire in my life.

Yes. Because the rungs from lower middle class to upper STILL EXIST. Your "self imposed ceiling" is expensive stuff like shiny TVs and new cars. The poor should make theirs what? Children, obviously. None of those. Food? Only if the government isn't giving you more than the bare minimum. Clothes? Only if you get them from Goodwill. Education? Only as much as you need to flip a ****ing burger.

 

[thethe]

This is not true at all. I know several people who started out from a crappy background who have made it to at least upper middle class. Some have even bumped themselves into the vaunted 1% that the class warriors like to vilify. All started from nothing or even less, and through hard work, ambition, and being thrifty with their money have made very comfortable lives for themselves.

I will always believe that anyone can make the right choices and better their lives. Free education at fine institutions are available to the poor as long as they work hard and get there. And once you are at college you can do enough to distinguish yourself and get a great job.

 

[Dalyn]

This is not true at all. I know several people who started out from a crappy background who have made it to at least upper middle class. Some have even bumped themselves into the vaunted 1% that the class warriors like to vilify. All started from nothing or even less, and through hard work, ambition, and being thrifty with their money have made very comfortable lives for themselves.

That's called an exception to the rule. And I bet it happened before the banks destroyed the bottom rungs.

 

[DirkPiggler]

I will always believe that anyone can make the right choices and better their lives. Free education at fine institutions are available to the poor as long as they work hard and get there. And once you are at college you can do enough to distinguish yourself and get a great job.

You don't even have to have a college education to do it. Most of the ones I know either don't have a degree, or have one and never used it for a job. Some got the degree while they were working their way up at a less than desirable job.

The current entitlement system does more to take away the ambition of the current generation of poor than any CEO or wall street criminal has done or ever will do. It doesn't need to be eliminated, but it needs to be reformed to remove the disincentive towards work.

 

[Dalyn]

I will always believe that anyone can make the right choices and better their lives. Free education at fine institutions are available to the poor as long as they work hard and get there. And once you are at college you can do enough to distinguish yourself and get a great job.

I don't know what to say. It's amazing how people stick to this reality when it is no longer the case. Things have changed. Go to Detroit and find a two-year-old and explain these things to him and tell him to give you a call when he's out of college and has a great job. Or go to Skid Row and find a fourteen-year-old prostitute hooked on heroin that her mother injected into her before selling her to men since she was eight. Give her your spiel about hard work and right choices and better lives.

 

[DirkPiggler]

That's called an exception to the rule. And I bet it happened before the banks destroyed the bottom rungs.

You keep saying this. Please give some examples of how the banks destroyed the bottom rungs. Specifics please.

And by the way, most of the ones I know happened fairly recently (last ten years or so). Some are in the process of building themselves up today, and haven't gotten there yet but will soon if they continue to work hard and smartly.

 

[thethe]

I don't know what to say. It's amazing how people stick to this reality when it is no longer the case. Things have changed. Go to Detroit and find a two-year-old and explain these things to him and tell him to give you a call when he's out of college and has a great job. Or go to Skid Row and find a fourteen-year-old prostitute hooked on heroin that her mother injected into her before selling her to men since she was eight. Give her your spiel about hard work and right choices and better lives.

So is that the systems fault or is it those parents fault that don't pass down the right lessons?

 

[Dalyn]

You keep saying this. Please give some examples of how the banks destroyed the bottom rungs. Specifics please.

And by the way, most of the ones I know happened fairly recently (last ten years or so). Some are in the process of building themselves up today, and haven't gotten there yet but will soon if they continue to work hard and smartly.

They sold the idea to two generations that they could afford these loans and these rates, and they were full of **** and were just making money for as long as possible until it all collapsed. They destroyed a whole generation of poor people trying to climb the ladder into lower middle class by lying and stealing from them. They exploited human nature for their own gain, and a new generation is starting to foot the bill.