Oregon

[Runnin]

Sav, you have convicted me of my indifference. Now, I'm going to feel a greater compulsion to engage rather than to go back to sleep on Saturday mornings. Smh.

I solved this problem a few years ago by refusing to hear or understand any talk of religion. As soon as I realize they are JW I start talking about the weather, their clothes, their shoes, how pretty they look, etc. They quit coming around.

 

[Runnin]

When did food and water become snacks?

 

[goldfly]

 

[BedellBrave]

I solved this problem a few years ago by refusing to hear or understand any talk of religion. As soon as I realize they are JW I start talking about the weather, their clothes, their shoes, how pretty they look, etc. They quit coming around.

Are you in Japan?

 

[Runnin]

Are you in Japan?

Yep. They get around.

 

[50PoundHead]

Taking this back to the subject of the OP, there is a real issue here.

I thought this piece from The New Yorker sums it up pretty well: Link: http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-do-the-bundys-want

The blue collar white male vote started slipping from the Democratic side of the ledger back in the Vietnam era and nothing has stemmed that exodus. That, and on-going federal land policies, really fuel a lot of this. Hard to know what to do on the land policy. Deep down, I think if it were in private hands, it would get all ripped up and the folks who bought it would still go out of business, so it's likely a lose/lose economically and environmentally.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

Taking this back to the subject of the OP, there is a real issue here.

I thought this piece from The New Yorker sums it up pretty well: Link: http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-do-the-bundys-want

The blue collar white male vote started slipping from the Democratic side of the ledger back in the Vietnam era and nothing has stemmed that exodus. That, and on-going federal land policies, really fuel a lot of this. Hard to know what to do on the land policy. Deep down, I think if it were in private hands, it would get all ripped up and the folks who bought it would still go out of business, so it's likely a lose/lose economically and environmentally.

I get my house/car insurance from a guy who does a lot of farming and ranching folks' insurance and we were chatting the other day about the REAL #1 reason why ranchers, especially those in the cattle business were really hurting and I'll be happy to tell everyone what he said if anyone is interested. It doesn't have anything to do with protests or running your cattle on government owned land (whether they pay their share for it or those like Cliven) but it would be something that would, in my opinion be tantamount to economic treason IMO since it had to result from payoffs, favors, etc., but sadly there doesn't seem to be anyone in the media who gives a ****e about the plight of ranchers unless they go on some sort of expedition and forget to pack snacks.

Let me know if you all want to know more.

 

[gilesfan]

I get my house/car insurance from a guy who does a lot of farming and ranching folks' insurance and we were chatting the other day about the REAL #1 reason why ranchers, especially those in the cattle business were really hurting and I'll be happy to tell everyone what he said if anyone is interested. It doesn't have anything to do with protests or running your cattle on government owned land (whether they pay their share for it or those like Cliven) but it would be something that would, in my opinion be tantamount to economic treason IMO since it had to result from payoffs, favors, etc., but sadly there doesn't seem to be anyone in the media who gives a ****e about the plight of ranchers unless they go on some sort of expedition and forget to pack snacks.

Let me know if you all want to know more.

well, obviously. Spill it.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

well, obviously. Spill it.

OK, as you know if you're involved in the cattle/beef producing industry prices were really pretty high for beef for several months until the past 3 or 4 months (not sure exactly how long) when they came crashing back down. He told me cattle folks are now selling them for $300-$400 loss per head just to get rid of them because the market was flooded. The source of that huge influx of beef? According to him it is/was Brazil and that our laws had kept out their beef for a long time which caused supply to be lower and then mysteriously a new law was passed which allowed us to import Brazilian beef which came in and flooded the market big time, which now has American ranchers "up poopie creek".

I'll bet if someone has the time and energy they could find out who was behind that new legislation and who all voted for it. I don't have the time or inclination but to me those people sold out their country just like if they had sold military secrets. Of course that's just me.

 

[BedellBrave]

OK, as you know if you're involved in the cattle/beef producing industry prices were really pretty high for beef for several months until the past 3 or 4 months (not sure exactly how long) when they came crashing back down. He told me cattle folks are now selling them for $300-$400 loss per head just to get rid of them because the market was flooded. The source of that huge influx of beef? According to him it is/was Brazil and that our laws had kept out their beef for a long time which caused supply to be lower and then mysteriously a new law was passed which allowed us to import Brazilian beef which came in and flooded the market big time, which now has American ranchers "up poopie creek".

I'll bet if someone has the time and energy they could find out who was behind that new legislation and who all voted for it. I don't have the time or inclination but to me those people sold out their country just like if they had sold military secrets. Of course that's just me.

And for prices to rise here. Right?

 

[50PoundHead]

OK, as you know if you're involved in the cattle/beef producing industry prices were really pretty high for beef for several months until the past 3 or 4 months (not sure exactly how long) when they came crashing back down. He told me cattle folks are now selling them for $300-$400 loss per head just to get rid of them because the market was flooded. The source of that huge influx of beef? According to him it is/was Brazil and that our laws had kept out their beef for a long time which caused supply to be lower and then mysteriously a new law was passed which allowed us to import Brazilian beef which came in and flooded the market big time, which now has American ranchers "up poopie creek".

I'll bet if someone has the time and energy they could find out who was behind that new legislation and who all voted for it. I don't have the time or inclination but to me those people sold out their country just like if they had sold military secrets. Of course that's just me.

I don't imagine there was ever legislation on this past NAFTA.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

And for prices to rise here. Right?

I guess it depends on how you look at it and this is one of those areas where I'll be looked at as a hypocrite. So be it. Our cattle industry, IMO tends to work fairly well as a supply/demand driven free-ish market economy. There are years, sometimes in a row of really low prices, where many ranchers hedge their bets, and hold on for the good years, then when those years come around they try to make back lost profits from previous bad years. This was one of the good stretches where things were going well for them until Congress, I guess, stepped in and allowed a vast influx of beef from a foreign country to come into the country and greatly affect supply which of course all but destroyed demand. In this case I would be against allowing foreign countries to make profits at the expense of our own farmers/ranchers from a system that IMO works when left alone.

Contrast this with our oil/gas industry and our big Pharma industries which IMO do not work well according to free market because the supply is, again IMO controlled so as to artificially inflate prices, to outrageous, IMO levels. Since the system is stagnant because of lack of competition I would be for allowing reliable countries, such as Canada to compete with our drug companies to drive prices down to more affordable levels. Allowing competition so as to actually have competition would be a good thing IMO, though I see some of the economic purists here have vastly differing opinions.

Again, these are my opinions, and I guess whether a person likes them or not depends on "who you're rooting for". I'm rooting for ranchers in the one argument and consumers in the other because I am hoping for something akin to actual free market capitalism. I know this will cause some of our brethren's heads to explode but these are just my opinions and the groups I root for. I realize everyone doesn't subscribe to either.

Again, so be it.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

I don't imagine there was ever legislation on this past NAFTA.

There had to be something from what I was told by the guy who deals with farmers and ranchers every day, but that one is beyond me. Perhaps because I suspect kickbacks and payoffs for everyone in Washington I just naturally expect that was what happened this time. Of course that can't possibly be the case, huh?

Ah good old NAFTA, a Bill Clinton turd burger w/fries

 

[BedellBrave]

I guess it depends on how you look at it and this is one of those areas where I'll be looked at as a hypocrite. So be it. Our cattle industry, IMO tends to work fairly well as a supply/demand driven free-ish market economy. There are years, sometimes in a row of really low prices, where many ranchers hedge their bets, and hold on for the good years, then when those years come around they try to make back lost profits from previous bad years. This was one of the good stretches where things were going well for them until Congress, I guess, stepped in and allowed a vast influx of beef from a foreign country to come into the country and greatly affect supply which of course all but destroyed demand. In this case I would be against allowing foreign countries to make profits at the expense of our own farmers/ranchers from a system that IMO works when left alone.

Contrast this with our oil/gas industry and our big Pharma industries which IMO do not work well according to free market because the supply is, again IMO controlled so as to artificially inflate prices, to outrageous, IMO levels. Since the system is stagnant because of lack of competition I would be for allowing reliable countries, such as Canada to compete with our drug companies to drive prices down to more affordable levels. Allowing competition so as to actually have competition would be a good thing IMO, though I see some of the economic purists here have vastly differing opinions.

Again, these are my opinions, and I guess whether a person likes them or not depends on "who you're rooting for". I'm rooting for ranchers in the one argument and consumers in the other because I am hoping for something akin to actual free market capitalism. I know this will cause some of our brethren's heads to explode but these are just my opinions and the groups I root for. I realize everyone doesn't subscribe to either.

Again, so be it.

I'm not making a value judgment, just pointing out that prices had risen. That price rise had/has consequences - again, not a value judgment, just stating fact. Right? I'll root for our ranchers and our consumers and know that in doing so there's inevitable conflict.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

I'm not making a value judgment, just pointing out that prices had risen. That price rise had/has consequences - again, not a value judgment, just stating fact. Right? I'll root for our ranchers and our consumers and know that in doing so there's inevitable conflict.

I suppose conflict is a fair way to put it, but I would call it something more along the lines of balance, limits, you could even go all Lion King and say a "circle of life kind of thing". Why do the predators in the jungle, savanna, etc., not kill every single herd animal they can find, ala the buffalo hunters in the American west circa 1870? Why were the Native Americans able to live in harmony with the land and when Europeans came they brought a "kill 'em all let God sort 'em out" mentality? Why did the Indentured Servant program work very well yet the Headright System was an enormous pile of rancid poo?

2 quick questions, first did you check your PMs recently? Also, did you make it through all 10 episodes of Man in the High Castle? I got sidetracked after #1 and just did #2 and #3 tonight. I feel like I"m getting lung cancer just from all the cigarettes I've seen smoked in the past 2 hours. It was like being in London during the blitz.

 

[BedellBrave]

I suppose conflict is a fair way to put it, but I would call it something more along the lines of balance, limits, you could even go all Lion King and say a "circle of life kind of thing". Why do the predators in the jungle, savanna, etc., not kill every single herd animal they can find, ala the buffalo hunters in the American west circa 1870? Why were the Native Americans able to live in harmony with the land and when Europeans came they brought a "kill 'em all let God sort 'em out" mentality? Why did the Indentured Servant program work very well yet the Headright System was an enormous pile of rancid poo?

2 quick questions, first did you check your PMs recently? Also, did you make it through all 10 episodes of Man in the High Castle? I got sidetracked after #1 and just did #2 and #3 tonight. I feel like I"m getting lung cancer just from all the cigarettes I've seen smoked in the past 2 hours. It was like being in London during the blitz.

1. I have now.

2. Watched it all and really liked it!

 

[50PoundHead]

There had to be something from what I was told by the guy who deals with farmers and ranchers every day, but that one is beyond me. Perhaps because I suspect kickbacks and payoffs for everyone in Washington I just naturally expect that was what happened this time. Of course that can't possibly be the case, huh?

Ah good old NAFTA, a Bill Clinton turd burger w/fries

I don't know how quotas/trade rules work per se, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility given a beef shortage and rising prices that a green light was given to import more beef from South America by whatever powers-that-be exsit in that realm.

It's a bit of a stretch, but what ranchers are facing isn't a whole lot different than what a lot of workers face in the post-union era. It seems that whenever a commodity price or a production price inches up that would have an effect on consumers, policy makers fall all over themselves to cushion even the most infinitesimally minor price hike. There are exceptions of course, but it's really a blow to a lot of working people who depend on healthy commodity prices and wages.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

I don't know how quotas/trade rules work per se, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility given a beef shortage and rising prices that a green light was given to import more beef from South America by whatever powers-that-be exsit in that realm.

It's a bit of a stretch, but what ranchers are facing isn't a whole lot different than what a lot of workers face in the post-union era. It seems that whenever a commodity price or a production price inches up that would have an effect on consumers, policy makers fall all over themselves to cushion even the most infinitesimally minor price hike. There are exceptions of course, but it's really a blow to a lot of working people who depend on healthy commodity prices and wages.

Unions wouldn't even exist except for the "absolutely anything goes to make more profits and human beings are no more than any other expendable asset and should be used until they cannot be used any more and then simply discarded like an empty beer can" spirit that possessed owners and management 100 years ago and still does a lot more today than many people want to admit. So isn't it ironic that we still need absolute power and little or no regulations for owners/management but unions have outlived their usefulness? Honestly I don't know how the people of this country still have as many freedoms left as they do.

EDIT: Oh and is there any type of perk or bobble that the people who actually govern this country won't whore themselves out to get just a little bit more of?

 

[Oklahomahawk]

2. Watched it all and really liked it!

I read that there's supposed to be a season 2, have you heard that?

 

[BedellBrave]

I read that there's supposed to be a season 2, have you heard that?

Let's just say, there better be.