THose guys are rated above Heyward. Are you saying since Heyward has played next to Bourn and now Upton (who has merely been average) then his UZR (factored in WAR) overstates his defense?
Position players and WAR
- Thread starter zitothebrave
- Start date
THose guys are rated above Heyward. Are you saying since Heyward has played next to Bourn and now Upton (who has merely been average) then his UZR (factored in WAR) overstates his defense?
It's possible. All I really know is Heyward is a better player then Harper.
No it's not. Attaching an arbitrary value to something that already has an inaccurate value does not make it even close to 90% accurate, which is a number you just made up anyways.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Can you link it?
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Barring injuries to Trout, it's him.
He doesn't have many holes in his game if any.
Elite defender, great hitter, good base runner.
He posted the first 10+ WAR since Bonds on roids. And is on pace for a 9+ WAR at 21-22, he's the best all around player in baseball.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
I can't look at threads on scout anymore.
Sure, but pitchers have more control of their ERA than that. Pitchers can control to a point how hard a ball is hit and where to. You say a pitcher is lucky because he has a good defense. Perhaps the pitcher simply has a knack for getting out of trouble. The problem with stats like FIP, is that it puts all players in a vacuum, but that isn't the way baseball played.
And the problem with ERA is that it gives the pitcher all of the credit, good or bad.
Yes I agree with that. I would never say ERA is the best stat to judge a pitcher on. But the pitcher should receive most of the credit for run prevention, though obviously not all the credit.
FIP is just not an accurate stat, and certainly not accurate enough to include in a stat that shows total value for past performance for my liking.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
A pitcher cannot control where and how hard a pitch is. They can limit where the ball is hit but if you throw a fastball low and away a guy can still pull it for a homer, just not as likely. You also can't control if it flies 5 or 10 feet further resulting in a hit or an out.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Are you serious? Now, that's an advanced metric I need to see. Here, all these years I've been thinking a pitcher can control where and how hard a pitch is.
Not sure what part of "can control to a point" you don't understand. A good pitcher can easily induce a weak ground ball to one side of the infield in certain situations. It happens all the time. That doesn't mean he will do it every time, nor is that what I said.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
No they can't. Even Greg Maddux couldn't do that with an extreme proficiency. Being better than normal is not controlling to a point. Again you can make a suggestion pitch. Like say you throw a fastball low and away set up properly sure you can increase the odds of getting a weak grounder but a good hitter could easily smack a liner the other way or crush a homer the other way.
You're so FOS.
There is plenty of evidence to suggest pitchers have plenty of control on balls put in play.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040208104252/http:/www.diamond-mind.com/articles/ipavg2.htm
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Clearly proving you've never played or really understand baseball. Any pitch in or near the strike zone can be put into play very hard.
Clearly you didn't read the article or what I wrote. Obviously any ball can be hit hard. Nowhere did I ever dispute this. Which is why I said pitchers can control how hard a ball is hit "to a point." And there is plenty of evidence to suggest this and there are plenty of articles that say as much as well.
I guarantee I played more baseball than you ever played high school football "against top competition."
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
And the point is very minimal. In general you can't pinpoint a pitch. You can guesstimate where it will go within a box but not pinpoint it. Even with that good accuracy, you cannot control the swing a hitter is taking. Sure you can study tendencies and so on so forth to improve your odds of producing an out. Because if a batter misses his timing by a nano second instead of weakly grounding out he could foul the pitch off or in a different miss put it in the seats. The point that pitcher can control where a ball is hit and how hard is very limited and it has much more to do with the hitter at the plate than the pitcher.
It's obvious by your answer you didn't even read the article. And if you did then simply refuse to look at stats and actual evidence of why certain pitchers consistently induce much weaker contact than others. Pitchers CLEARLY have a noticeable influence on how hard a ball is hit, to an extent. And this is especially true in certain situations of an at bat.