sturg33
I
You haven't seen it because the MSM is busy pointing out how racist Trump is
Race
- Thread starter 57Brave
- Start date
You haven't seen it because the MSM is busy pointing out how racist Trump is
McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
I think you could argue the semantics around if your first example is 'racism' or not- I believe the dictionary definition of racism includes a line about racism typically having to involve discrimination against minority or marginalized populations, which would be the major difference between your example and this club.
Where systemic racism comes in is recognizing that discrimination has existed in the justice system, healthcare, housing, employment, political power, education, etc. for a very long time. You can't just say 'we aren't racist anymore' and fix those things. as we've seen time and time again in this country. You have to do something to even out the pipeline if you ever want to actually solve the problem. You see this in places like NFL head coaching jobs, Fortune 500 CEO roles, Supreme Court justices, etc. where there are very few minorities in high-ranking roles in part because there are very few minorities in the pipeline, and its tough to fix one of those problems without fixing the other. (I would suggest this largely applies to both women and racial minorities, btw, with women being a couple of steps ahead as you would expect based on historical timelines)
A real-life example for you: My mother-in-law was one of the first female neurosurgeons in the country. She was the only female neurosurgeon in her state, and she was routinely harassed in the workplace by her male counterparts- kicked under the table if she tried to voice an opinion, locked out of the room where most of her coworkers ate lunch, etc. She often had women who would consider a career in neurosurgery only to choose another path, and the most common reason that they gave was that they felt the field was not welcoming to women- they rarely if ever saw women in high ranking roles, often saw issues of harassment, and felt they wouldn't have the same opportunities for mentorship and growth that they might in another field. Just saying 'women can be neurosurgeons' isn't enough to overcome the realities of the old boys club- another variation of discrimination that is systemically ingrained- you have to actually do the work to make them feel welcome.
In this particular case, I can imagine that it would be incredibly uncomfortable for a black person to join a club full of white people that until recently all agreed to explicitly prohibit their membership. However, I would imagine that if that club, for example, waived the membership fees for a group of black members, welcomed them into the club, and brought in some new speakers based on their feedback and interests, you might over time start to see additional black members feel comfortable joining at full price. For Whitehouse to just shrug it off as 'this is the way things have always been so it's fine' would suggest to me that he is either ignorant, doesn't believe it's a problem, or both.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I presented a report to a major media organization a few years ago. Looked around the room. 19 white guys. 1 white woman. I think that's systemic racism and sexism. Private sector. True. But a major network is one of the main institutions in our society. You don't have to go to Mississippi to find this. It pervades huge portions of our society. Even institutions that think they are highly progressive.
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Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Do you know of specific applicants for those jobs who were better qualified and passed over?
The difference between us is where you see racism I see economically disadvantaged.
Shame what happened to your mother in law but that is not the day we live on today for anyone and luckily there is so much opportunity you can just avoid ignorant people that hold bigoted beliefs and still be successful and happy.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
That's a fairly recent redefinition of the word. One of the more amazing aspects to me of the race conversation in this country is that we can't agree that excluding people due solely to their race is racism. It pretty much guarantees that race relations will get worse instead of better.
McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
This is really important to me as a business owner. You don't need to hire a less qualified candidate just because they are black, but you need to do everything you can to ensure that the pipeline is representative. If you do this, you'll end up with a fairly representative workforce.
Your implication is that the white candidates at this network are always more qualified than the black candidates. That means one of two things: 1) The pipeline isn't representative and they need to do some work to figure out why or 2) The pipeline is representative and black people are just less qualified workers than white people. I think we can agree that the issue is #1, not #2.
McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
If you think this kind of thing doesn't happen today, then you need to open your eyes.
McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
There is definitely a fine line between something like bias- which we all have- and racism. The key to racism is that there is a power dynamic at play. To thethe's point, the power dynamic is often economic in nature. If there were a city in America where black people controlled most of the wealth and political power and they discriminated against the white working class in that city, I'd be totally down to call it racism. Unfortunately, that place doesn't exist.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
The organization nsacpi was working with may have been an offshoot of the Klan, I have no idea. But the idea that they were definitely racist because there were no minorities isn't one I agree with.
Why would work need to be done on the pipeline if it isn't representative? That sounds like something we constantly hear about MLB and never hear about the NBA. Maybe we should let people do what they want to do and we can just pick the best option regardless of race.
Why would work need to be done on the pipeline if it isn't representative? That sounds like something we constantly hear about MLB and never hear about the NBA. Maybe we should let people do what they want to do and we can just pick the best option regardless of race.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Have no clue.
But I also familiar with other news organizations who have worked very hard to recruit and hire and give opportunities to minorities and women, and when I go give presentations to them the room has a much different composition.
My point is that inclusion and diversity respond to policy and outreach. The easy position is to let things sort themselves out. Well over a very long period of time things do sort themselves out. But there is a public interest in accelerating the process of overcoming the legacy that racism and sexism and other forms of bigotry have left us with.
Of course, we have to be mindful that skin tone is not the only way to judge whether an organization is overcoming society's past sins. I have had some amazing conversations with clients about this. One news director (a white woman) told me that she was homeless for a time as a child. For her having newsroom diversity meant people who had these kinds of disadvantaged upbringings. So if she interviews someone who is a little rough around the edges (regardless of race) she tries to understand where that is coming from. She is probably one of the few people who gives brownie points in a job interview to people who are rough around the edges. But I do think we would benefit as a society if more institutions took that attitude. Try to understand the formative experiences of the people you hire.
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Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
My employer was excluded from consideration as a vendor by the city of Philadelphia due to a lack of minority ownership. I don't think anyone would say that blacks are excluded from power in Philadelphia, especially considering that the mayor at the time was black.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Why? What is the benefit in not choosing the best applicant for any position? Why would you impose race quotas on newsroom jobs but not on the MLB draft, or NBA draft? Why is it important to have a certain percentage of black women in boardrooms but not in the sanitation industry?
McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
No this continues. Not so long ago I worked for a bank on the trading floor. The culture of a trading floor is very close to the culture you would find in a men's locker room. It is fine for racial and ethnic minorities. It is awful for women. It is even worse if you are gay.
More recently, my daughter finished up a computer science degree with very high departmental honors from a school in California. Her boyfriend took a job for a Silicon Valley startup. I asked her why she didn't consider something like that. Her answer was something along the lines of "you've got to be kidding me." Silicon Valley, bastion of liberal California, is an awful place for women to work.
Women are physically abused and locked out of meeting rooms?
I’ve worked for some big companies and it’s laughable to even suggest something 1% as egregious as that.
McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
The issue is as I described above. If the only reason women don't want to go into neurosurgery is that it's dominated by white men and they see a lack of opportunity for mentorship and growth, then shouldn't we fix that? Or should we just decide that there are some industries that should be dominated by white guys forever because we can't be bothered to fix it?