REAL FOOTBALL Thread

Foles has a strong enough arm. He has a quality arm. The question is, can he make the hard throws, can he make throws with the target on his back, can he make throws when he isn't given all day.
 
thethe said:
I'm surprised nobody responded to the football outsiders article about mobile QB's.

Hate to admit I'm right!
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Because it's retarded. If you don't want to believe physics, there is not much left to say. There is a reason QBs slide/get of bounds instead going for extra yardage when they are running out of the pocket. But for the times you can't/don't do that, the defense is gonna ring you up.
 
Carp said:
Because it's retarded. If you don't want to believe physics, there is not much left to say. There is a reason QBs slide/get of bounds instead going for extra yardage when they are running out of the pocket. But for the times you can't/don't do that, the defense is gonna ring you up.
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Physics also works if the QB is moving away from a hit out of hte pocket it reduces the force while a standing target absorbs more from the same moving target.
 
"Nick has got one of the stronger arms that we've had here, one of the stronger arms in the league," Reid said on Friday. "But you have to make sure your feet are right, your drop is right. You have to learn those things. That's one of the tougher things for the young quarterback to do.
 
thethe said:
Physics also works if the QB is moving away from a hit out of hte pocket it reduces the force while a standing target absorbs more from the same moving target.
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That's not entirely true. But I won't get into a long physics debate. A QB in the pocket can do many things to soften a blow even more than a running QB and a hit on the wrong part of the body for someone running away can be more devastating than a head on collision at each other.

I leave it at this. QBs get hurt. QBs like Kaepernick, Wilson, and RG3 who run the ball open themselves up to be hit more than pocket passers. That's not always the case of course sometimes pocket passers are like Rapelisberger who sit in the pocket and hold the ball til the last possible second. The more hits you open yourself up to the more likely you are to get hurt. Now so far Kaepernick hasn't been hit much and there's 2 big reasons for that, their running game and their defense. When he's asked to put his tema on his back he's gonna start getting hurt more. And that time will come. We'll see if he's still mister fast to slide or get out of bounds. Maybe Kaepernick breaks the health mold of running QBs, I don't bet on that happening though.
 
Kaep is all of a sudden going to become dumber as he matures and learns how to play better? I find that unlikely. Kaep does an incredible job of avoiding hits and I'd imagine that he will stay in the pocket more as he grows as a player but the threat is always there for the run.

Those things may still be there even after his contract because Kaep did not take every penny possible like some others.
 
This is such a dumb argument anyways, can't believe you guys are going on and on. A QB can get injured inside or outside of the pocket. Obviously, the more hits you take, the more chances you have for injury. But, I would guess a hit while the QB is in the pocket is far more likely to cause injury because they- 1) May not see it coming, 2) are still trying to make pass before getting hit (Palmer for example), 3) greater chance of a fatass DL falling on your knee and tearing it to shreds. Outside of the pocket, QBs are more likely to see it coming and brace for impact.

In before Zito posts Gif of RG3 having Ngata spraining RG3s knee (which he missed 1 game) or Vick and ignoring guys that got injured in the pocket (Palmer, Marino, Montana, Young, Big Ben, etc)
 
thethe said:
Kaep is all of a sudden going to become dumber as he matures and learns how to play better? I find that unlikely. Kaep does an incredible job of avoiding hits and I'd imagine that he will stay in the pocket more as he grows as a player but the threat is always there for the run.

Those things may still be there even after his contract because Kaep did not take every penny possible like some others.
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It has nothing to do with getting dumber and everything to do with raised expectations. When you're the man because you're making 20M and your team coudln't afford to keep a high profile running back and your running game is slipping, that's a thing or your defense is worse, or your OL is wrose or you're missing a receiving target, whatever it may be. When you're the man who's expected to carry your team to victory you play differently than when your job is to not **** up.
 
zitothebrave said:
It has nothing to do with getting dumber and everything to do with raised expectations. When you're the man because you're making 20M and your team coudln't afford to keep a high profile running back and your running game is slipping, that's a thing or your defense is worse, or your OL is wrose or you're missing a receiving target, whatever it may be. When you're the man who's expected to carry your team to victory you play differently than when your job is to not **** up.
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Or that is how Matt Ryan plays (Risk adverse) and that is why he is getting hit a lot.

Once Kaep actualy starts getting hit a lot I will believe you. But from actually watching him play for the last couple of years I am confident in saying he is adept at avoiding the hits and that article I posted proves it. All you are talking is conjecture based on what you want to happen.
 
gilesfan said:
This is such a dumb argument anyways, can't believe you guys are going on and on. A QB can get injured inside or outside of the pocket. Obviously, the more hits you take, the more chances you have for injury. But, I would guess a hit while the QB is in the pocket is far more likely to cause injury because they- 1) May not see it coming, 2) are still trying to make pass before getting hit (Palmer for example), 3) greater chance of a fatass DL falling on your knee and tearing it to shreds. Outside of the pocket, QBs are more likely to see it coming and brace for impact.

In before Zito posts Gif of RG3 having Ngata spraining RG3s knee (which he missed 1 game) or Vick and ignoring guys that got injured in the pocket (Palmer, Marino, Montana, Young, Big Ben, etc)
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There are like 2 examples of a DT falling on your knee and tearing it to shreds. ANd Palmer is the big one. There's a reason why there are more examples of pocket QBs getting hurt. Cause historically they massively outnumber the running QBs. I'm still waiting on your example of a running QB playing well into his 30s. Elway is your best example and he never ran the ball more than 70 times a season, something that modern QBs like Kaepernick, RG3 and Wilson smoke.

Also basically every example you listed of a QB getting hurt in the pocket played in a much rougher time in the NFL. Palmer was a freak injury, Rapelisberger holds the ball forever in the pocket so he takes more hits by choice.
 
thethe said:
Or that is how Matt Ryan plays (Risk adverse) and that is why he is getting hit a lot.

Once Kaep actualy starts getting hit a lot I will believe you. But from actually watching him play for the last couple of years I am confident in saying he is adept at avoiding the hits and that article I posted proves it. All you are talking is conjecture based on what you want to happen.
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Ryan got hit a lot last year because if he held the ball for 3 seconds he was under pressure. Ryan normally isn't close to that number.

Maybe Kaepernick doesn't change, but if he doesn't I fully expect him not to be a great QB because the greats always make adjustments depending on their surrounding talent.
 
Steve Young and John Elway both play into their 30s. As did Cunningham. Why examples are there of running QBs that had to retire in their 30s due to injury?
 
gilesfan said:
Steve Young and John Elway both play into their 30s. As did Cunningham. Why examples are there of running QBs that had to retire in their 30s due to injury?
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Steve Young played 65 games and made 39 starts before his 31 year old season. I was gonna laugh my ass off when you brought him us and yes, I am. I already admitted Elway is your best case and already compared him to the modern runners who run the ball 100 times a season when Elways didn't. Between the years 1991 and 2001 (aka 11 seasons) Cunningham played 80 games started 66 of them. another bad comp.
 
zitothebrave said:
Steve Young played 65 games and made 39 starts before his 31 year old season. I was gonna laugh my ass off when you brought him us and yes, I am. I already admitted Elway is your best case and already compared him to the modern runners who run the ball 100 times a season when Elways didn't. Between the years 1991 and 2001 (aka 11 seasons) Cunningham played 80 games started 66 of them. another bad comp.
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What comps do you have of "running" QBs shutting it down in their early 30s?
 
zitothebrave said:
McNabb, McNair, Vick, Zorn, Stewart, and someone else I'm forgetting as someone who s tarted a healthy number of games.
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Mcnabb played thill he was 35 and had one of his best seasons at age 33.

McNair played till he was 34 and had his average career year at 33.

Vick is still playing

Stewart and Zorn weren't good QBs, not sure why even mentioned
 
gilesfan said:
"Nick has got one of the stronger arms that we've had here, one of the stronger arms in the league," Reid said on Friday. "But you have to make sure your feet are right, your drop is right. You have to learn those things. That's one of the tougher things for the young quarterback to do.
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Who is this about?
 
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