REAL FOOTBALL Thread

Heyward said:
Ben Johnson staying with the Lions. Thats a stunner honestly. Felt like a lock to get a HC job this cycle. Macdonald and not sure who else gets the other spot.
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Well looking at HC vacancies left, he may have decided he didn't want Washington or Seattle and decided to wait another year. Maybe have a shot at a ring with Detroit.
 
Carp said:
Julio was absolutely in Tron's zip code.

Stafford had Tron, but that was mostly it until later in his career. It was basically Tron and a decent but not great Brandon Peddigrew. He got Golden Tate and Tron together for 2 seasons and that was the best set of weapons he had.

Meanwhile, Ryan got at least 2 of Roddy White, Julio Jones, and Tony Gonzalez for practically his entire career (all 3 together for a few seasons). Plus Michael Turner and Stephen Jackson for about half his career.
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No Megatron was special. Megatron had a 1300 yard receiving season with Dan Orlovski, Jon Kitna and the ghost of Daunte Culpepper throwing to him. Julio doesn't do that. Julio needs a competent QB to feed him the ball. In 2020 in Atlanta he played 9 games and had 771 yards. His first year in Tennessee he had 434 yards in 10 games.

Megatron was a beast like few other WRs. Like if you're looking at WR who made their QBs great Megatron, Moss, T.O., etc. Julio to me is more like Rice, a great receiver who made his QB better, but still needed someone to get the ball to them. T.O made people think Jeff Garcia was a good QB. Moss made people think Culpepper was a good QB, etc. Stafford is obviously much better than Garcia or Culpepper it's why his feed guys have the 2 best receiving seasons in NFL history. Because he's a good QB but he only needs a single target because he's gonna feed them. When he doesn't have a good single target he sucks. Ryan when he didn't have a good WR for most of the year threw for 4500 yards and had a 67% comp% 4 TD% and 2.6 INT% and 6.07 NY/A Stafford when he didn't have a good WR for most of the year threw for just under 3800 yards, 3.8 TD% 2.0 INT% 5.92 NY/A

Stafford is a great QB. He's a specialist in feeding his man. Be it Megatron, Kupp, Puka, Golladay, whomever. When he picks his target that's his man and they'll eat together. Julio if he was asked to do that would have been beaten battered and bruised.
 
zitothebrave said:
No Megatron was special. Megatron had a 1300 yard receiving season with Dan Orlovski, Jon Kitna and the ghost of Daunte Culpepper throwing to him. Julio doesn't do that. Julio needs a competent QB to feed him the ball. In 2020 in Atlanta he played 9 games and had 771 yards. His first year in Tennessee he had 434 yards in 10 games.

Megatron was a beast like few other WRs. Like if you're looking at WR who made their QBs great Megatron, Moss, T.O., etc. Julio to me is more like Rice, a great receiver who made his QB better, but still needed someone to get the ball to them. T.O made people think Jeff Garcia was a good QB. Moss made people think Culpepper was a good QB, etc. Stafford is obviously much better than Garcia or Culpepper it's why his feed guys have the 2 best receiving seasons in NFL history. Because he's a good QB but he only needs a single target because he's gonna feed them. When he doesn't have a good single target he sucks. Ryan when he didn't have a good WR for most of the year threw for 4500 yards and had a 67% comp% 4 TD% and 2.6 INT% and 6.07 NY/A Stafford when he didn't have a good WR for most of the year threw for just under 3800 yards, 3.8 TD% 2.0 INT% 5.92 NY/A

Stafford is a great QB. He's a specialist in feeding his man. Be it Megatron, Kupp, Puka, Golladay, whomever. When he picks his target that's his man and they'll eat together. Julio if he was asked to do that would have been beaten battered and bruised.
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Incorrect. Julio would have been Julio anywhere. What he did at the end of his career when he was a shell of his former self is irrelevant.

Was Tron better than Julio? Sure, but Julio is still solidly a top 10 WR all time. So acting like he isn't close is silly.
 
Carp said:
Incorrect. Julio would have been Julio anywhere. What he did at the end of his career when he was a shell of his former self is irrelevant.

Was Tron better than Julio? Sure, but Julio is still solidly a top 10 WR all time. So acting like he isn't close is silly.
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I love Julio, he's not top 10 all time.

Rice, Megatron, Moss, Marvin Harrison, Fitz, T.O. Largent, Tim Brown, James Lofton, Lance Alworth, all get him. He's in that next group with Reggie Wayne, AB, Torey Holt, Isaac Bruce, Steve Smith, Andre Johnson, Charley Taylor, Michael IRvin, Paul Warfield, etc.

He's not remotely bad, he's one of the best of his generation. But he's not top 10 all time, he's barely top 5 since 2000 (or 2000 era as I want to lump Harrison and Moss who had a chunk of career before 2000 but did most of their damage in the 2000s) as he's behind Moss, Harrison, Fitz and Wayne, and I think you could make a case for AB, Andre Johnson, Torry Holt, Boldin, Brandon Marshall, D-Hop, Mike Evans, Davante. Etc.

What Julio has on a lot of the guys there was his highs were higher, but what he has against him that Johnson, Boldin, D-Hop, Evans, and Davante don't is health. Julio constantly missed games and snaps with injuries.

I love Julio but to highlight the difference in dominance of Johnson vs him Julio has played 13 seasons, many of them banged up of course, but he had about 8 or 9 relatively healthy seasons. But still

MEgatron started 96.3% of his total games played and had 10.1 Targets per start. Julio has started 92.2% of his games and has 9.3 Targets per start. So despite having potentially more targets because of targets in games he wasn't a starter (this year for example, he had 8 targets in his 4 starts, vs 11 when he didn't start) Megatron was just fed at a higher rate because he was on the field more that's a knock against Julio.
 
Ben Johnson was my top pick for the Falcons. I assumed he had no interest in Atlanta because I figured he basically had a deal in place with Washington. Makes going for Morris even more disappointing.
 
striker42 said:
Ben Johnson was my top pick for the Falcons. I assumed he had no interest in Atlanta because I figured he basically had a deal in place with Washington. Makes going for Morris even more disappointing.
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Who's to say he wanted Atlanta? Maybe he's eyeing up other portential positions with older coaches like KC, Dallas, or Baltimore. Reid won't be let go from KC any point soon but he could decide to retire for health reasons, especially if they win the Super Bowl. Dallas is likely to fire McCarthy and while they're not a premier team IMO because of Jones, he'll back the bus up to his ideal coach and it's ahrd to turn that down. Baltimore also I don't think fire Harbaugh anytime soon, but who knows.
 
Dan Campbell effect


Ben Johnson on his decision to stay in Detroit as
@Lions
OC via
@MLive
:
“Talked to my wife about it, and we just came to a really good decision of, ‘Hey, you know, we’re happy where we are. We love where we are. We love being in Detroit, love the people here,’ and just decided then to go ahead and put the brakes on it right now,” Johnson said. “Just wasn’t the time for us.”

“I think some people -- I can just speak on a personal level -- some people, they really want to climb as fast as they can,” Johnson said. “I know particularly young coaches want to do that. That’s not been the case for me, per se. I want to be around football. I want to win football games. I want to be around good people. And when I finally had a chance to step back and take a deep breath and look at it, that was the most important thing.

“I love Dan Campbell, I’ve known him for a long time. I believe in the direction of this organization. And so that truly was the biggest drawing point for me to come back, was what we have here, what we’re building here, is something I want to be a part of. I’ve been a part of a number of losing seasons in my 11 years in the NFL.”
 
Carp said:
Julio was absolutely in Tron's zip code.

Stafford had Tron, but that was mostly it until later in his career. It was basically Tron and a decent but not great Brandon Peddigrew. He got Golden Tate and Tron together for 2 seasons and that was the best set of weapons he had.

Meanwhile, Ryan got at least 2 of Roddy White, Julio Jones, and Tony Gonzalez for practically his entire career (all 3 together for a few seasons). Plus Michael Turner and Stephen Jackson for about half his career.
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Stephen Jackson lol

This would be like saying Bobby Cox was fortunate enough to manage Raul Mondesi.
 
Carp said:
For some reason I thought he was a lot better than he was for Atlanta. Maybe because Zito was pumping him up when he signed there.
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This definitely happened.

Ryan even still had absolutely stacked offensive teams.

Maybe if they invested more in defense they would have won more but then Ryan wouldn’t have borderline HOF statistical case.
 
thethe said:
This definitely happened.

Ryan even still had absolutely stacked offensive teams.

Maybe if they invested more in defense they would have won more but then Ryan wouldn’t have borderline HOF statistical case.
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Ryan turned Harry Douglas into a 1000 yard receiver. I understand you're jealous because you haven't had a QB as good as Ryan since Steve Young retired.
 
Carp said:
For some reason I thought he was a lot better than he was for Atlanta. Maybe because Zito was pumping him up when he signed there.
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I mean the thread here started in 2013 so we don't have the offseason. Essentially here's what I said about Jackson.

He was signed to impact immediately. This was in response to thethe saying the Falcons should have drafted Marcus Lattimore (who never played an NFL snap)

Falcons could win with ineffective Michael Turner they'll win with Jackson even if he tanks.

Jackson was worse than Turner, I'll admit being wrong.
 
Macdonald to Seattle. Seemed like they would have waited until after the SB to get him if they had to. Not even sure who Washington is gonna get with him off the board, and Ben Johnson staying.
 
striker42 said:
Ben Johnson was my top pick for the Falcons. I assumed he had no interest in Atlanta because I figured he basically had a deal in place with Washington. Makes going for Morris even more disappointing.
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To me it makes it a ton better. Especially with the staff he’s put together. Sure as hell didn’t want BB… he’s been absolutely atrocious in the draft and as a coach without the best QB of all time.
 
zbhargrove said:
To me it makes it a ton better. Especially with the staff he’s put together. Sure as hell didn’t want BB… he’s been absolutely atrocious in the draft and as a coach without the best QB of all time.
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Yeah, if Brady can turn someone like Bruce Arians into a Super Bowl winning head coach he can about anyone.
 
Garmel said:
Yeah, if Brady can turn someone like Bruce Arians into a Super Bowl winning head coach he can about anyone.
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It wasn't Brady that won that Super Bowl. It was a team that needed a QB desperately and added a legend. Tampa had the 5 best defense in 2019.
 
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