REAL FOOTBALL Thread

striker42 said:
There are two potential scenarios, either Pitts is as good as expected or he's not. Both are bad looks for Smith and the front office.

It's possible Pitts is as good as expected. He received for over 1,000 yards as a rookie which was the only time he had a competent QB throwing to him and one who could perhaps overcome the limits of the system. But last year and this year he's been largely absent. If he's the guy he looked like at Florida, the combine, and his rookie year then he's being heinously misused. It's not just that the QB play has been bad this year, it has, but that's not all of it. There's not even an attempt to scheme around Pitts. He's an afterthought in the system. If he's actually really good, then this coaching staff has some explaining they need to do and the front office as well.

The other possibility is that Pitts isn't the unicorn people thought. That he's a combine warrior who hasn't been able to adjust to the speed of the pro game and that his rookie stats were more the result of Ryan throwing to him than his ability. If this is the case then Smith and the front office have a huge black mark on them. People questioned drafting a TE in the top 10, much less the top 5 at the time. To draft one and to be wrong about him is a huge embarrassment.

Personally, I think Pitts is capable of a huge amount more than he's been able to show. The QB play for the Falcons the past two years has been some of the worst you'll ever see. Also, I seriously doubt Arthur Smith's ability to design and call a competent passing game and doubt even more his willingness to feature TEs prominently in his offense. I think if you put Pitts out there with a better QB and in a competently run offense, he'd explode.
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I have always been of the belief that no skill position player can do well without at least an average QB. Same goes for any RB. Harder to run against 7-8 man fronts when the defense isn't scared the QB can adequately take the top off the defense...which really means hang in the pocket for 3+ seconds and go through progressions.
 
zitothebrave said:
Pitts was drafted on the delusion that Julio could be reasoned with.

It's simple as that. They took a gamble at one last shot to push the chips in and win, and screwed up royally. It's not that complex honestly, just mismanagement.

London was a bad pick but that was a historically bad draft. Sure you could argue Olave, Wilson, and Williams over him, I wanted Charles Cross but I mean I'm always down to take an OL in the top 10.

Clearly the bigger miss was not realizing Julio was on the way out and drafting Jefferson in 2020.
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I will say the Falcons sort of got screwed with the Calvin Ridley situation. The receiving situation would have looked a lot better the last 2 years had Ridley not been suspended and then demanded a trade. But even if they didn't expect the Julio situation to go the way it did, they had to know he was close to being done. Chase was the perfect replacement.
 
Pitts should be used like Jimmy Graham and the Falcons should be designing more plays in the red zone for him. He is a match up nightmare in the Red Zone. Honestly no reason he shouldn't have 10 TDs per year, even if he isn't the middle of the field target beast they thought they were getting.
 
Considering that Smith drafted Pitts, I think it's more likely that Pitts just isn't that good rather than he refuses to use him
 
Tapate50 said:
He isn't creating any separation...every throw to him is contested.
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It's entirely possible that Pitts isn't as good as expected. If that's the case then Smith's and Fontenot's seats should be warming up. When you draft a TE with the 4th overall pick you pretty much have to hit. You're staking a huge amount of credibility on a pick like that. Especially when a guy like Chase is taken with the next pick.

As for separation, I'm not sure how well we can judge things as they are. In the NFL, you have to have the ball in the air before the receiver gets open a lot of the time. If you wait for your guy to get open, he'll be covered by the time the ball gets there. Ridder hasn't shown great anticipation or the ability to make the right reads. There are times where Pitts is wide open and Ridder just never looks at him.

You also have the fact that Smith is starting to get a reputation for not being able to design or call a passing game. That only makes problems worse.

I honestly don't know what we have in Pitts. He went for a thousand yards as a rookie but ever since he's been a non-factor. I just don't know.
 
sturg33 said:
Considering that Smith drafted Pitts, I think it's more likely that Pitts just isn't that good rather than he refuses to use him
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I'd be more inclined to agree with you except for a couple of facts. First, Pitts went for 1,000 yards as a rookie when he had a competent QB who actually seemed to make up for some of Smith's inadequacies in running a passing attack.

Next, the Falcon's passing game is completely ineffectual and has been since Ryan left. It's not just Pitts. London is struggling too. I have low expectations of London's ceiling as he's painfully slow but he's a massive target that can catch anything thrown his way and has a very high floor. He should be able to do more as the number 1 receiver in this offense than he's done so far. Even Robinson has been stymied as a receiver more than he should be. He's done great things running the ball and looks like the real deal but he's not been particularly explosive as a pass catcher.

The complete failure of the Falcons' passing attack since the start of last season makes me think it's a problem affecting the whole offense. Either the QB play is so atrocious the receivers have no chance to make plays or Smith struggles designing a passing attack or, and the most likely scenario to me, it's some of both.
 
striker42 said:
It's entirely possible that Pitts isn't as good as expected. If that's the case then Smith's and Fontenot's seats should be warming up. When you draft a TE with the 4th overall pick you pretty much have to hit. You're staking a huge amount of credibility on a pick like that. Especially when a guy like Chase is taken with the next pick.

As for separation, I'm not sure how well we can judge things as they are. In the NFL, you have to have the ball in the air before the receiver gets open a lot of the time. If you wait for your guy to get open, he'll be covered by the time the ball gets there. Ridder hasn't shown great anticipation or the ability to make the right reads. There are times where Pitts is wide open and Ridder just never looks at him.

You also have the fact that Smith is starting to get a reputation for not being able to design or call a passing game. That only makes problems worse.

I honestly don't know what we have in Pitts. He went for a thousand yards as a rookie but ever since he's been a non-factor. I just don't know.
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Its on the QB most of the time to throw their receivers open. In addition, on the plays where the evaulation is he always has someone draped on in those are just a subset where you are seeing the result. Its hard for fans because we don't get the high level views and see what hte QB is missing as to when receivers are open.

Ultimatley, it doesn't matter how good you are as a skill player. You need a QB to get you the ball.
 
thethe said:
Its on the QB most of the time to throw their receivers open. In addition, on the plays where the evaulation is he always has someone draped on in those are just a subset where you are seeing the result. Its hard for fans because we don't get the high level views and see what hte QB is missing as to when receivers are open.

Ultimatley, it doesn't matter how good you are as a skill player. You need a QB to get you the ball.
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This. A lot of the time a receiver has a DB all over them it's because of poor ball placement or else the throw came too late. If you see someone open in the NFL, they're already covered. And you're right about us not having a good view. We don't see the receiver until the ball gets there most of the time.

And you're also right it not mattering how good a receiver you are if your QB is terrible. QBs and receivers are symbiotic. An awful QB will limit great receivers and terrible receivers will limit great QBs. It doesn't matter how often you get open if your QB can't get it to you in time and it doesn't matter how great you are at making reads and getting the ball where it needs to go if every read is bad.
 
Trends are not great at all for the Falcons but to suggest the Falcons should have tried to swing a deal for Lamar is dumb… there is no way resource wise we could have swung that and fielded a competent rest of the team. I also think Lamar is extremely overrated. Would have cost a fortune to stay mediocre and be in cap hell just like that again. And we would have given up pretty much any quality draft capital for multiple years. Sadly, there was just not a realistic difference maker QB option realistically available. I don’t know what to think of Pitts… monster first year without end zone results. Is he just not very physical? Did his injury impact him last year worse than thought? Is it just QB play? Weird situation… I think you’re right that Smith doesn’t really know how to plan a passing attack.

I would have liked to get Stroud but he was certainly not a slam dunk and I don’t think we had the ability to trade up that far. No way Texas was trading the pick anyways. He was clearly their guy.
 
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Lamar is not the answer long term - I don't think you can win with a QB like him. As a pure passer he is inaccurate and lacks touch.
 
zbhargrove said:
Yup we don’t agree on many things but Lamar as an answer to anything long term is a joke
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I'm a huge fan of Lamar, but he wasn't the right trade for the Falcons. As a FA I'd have gone for him.

BUt no way can you give up multiple 1s and so much of your cap for so long for a QB who has any tiny amount of doubt.

That being said, Lamar is a great QB. thethe is wrong. Only concern with him is longevity as he takes a ton of hits. Lamar is legit one of the 10 best QBs in the NFL, you could argue him all the way up to 5. His receivers are meh, Zay Flowers is a rookie. RBs are kind of a mess. Lamar is an MVP level player. He doesn't need that much talent around him.
 
zitothebrave said:
I'm a huge fan of Lamar, but he wasn't the right trade for the Falcons. As a FA I'd have gone for him.

BUt no way can you give up multiple 1s and so much of your cap for so long for a QB who has any tiny amount of doubt.

That being said, Lamar is a great QB. thethe is wrong. Only concern with him is longevity as he takes a ton of hits. Lamar is legit one of the 10 best QBs in the NFL, you could argue him all the way up to 5. His receivers are meh, Zay Flowers is a rookie. RBs are kind of a mess. Lamar is an MVP level player. He doesn't need that much talent around him.
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You’ll win a lot of regular season games and maybe 1 win in the playoffs each year with him. Not going to top that.
 
thethe said:
You’ll win a lot of regular season games and maybe 1 win in the playoffs each year with him. Not going to top that.
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Disagree. We watched the Eagles almost win the Superbowl with a worse version of Lamar.

Lamar's had largely mediocre talent around him his whole career. Look at his MVP season, his top receiver was Marc Andrews, who's good but hardly is a beast. His next top receiver was Marquise Brown, who's fine but isn't elite.

His RBs have been eh, his lien has been decent but not amazing.

Lamar is a beast. If he was picked up by a better team he'd be better off.

Injuries are a concern, that's his biggest concern. Sure you want a Mahomes. SUre you want a Brady. But there's usually only one of them in the league at a time.
 
zitothebrave said:
Disagree. We watched the Eagles almost win the Superbowl with a worse version of Lamar.

Lamar's had largely mediocre talent around him his whole career. Look at his MVP season, his top receiver was Marc Andrews, who's good but hardly is a beast. His next top receiver was Marquise Brown, who's fine but isn't elite.

His RBs have been eh, his lien has been decent but not amazing.

Lamar is a beast. If he was picked up by a better team he'd be better off.

Injuries are a concern, that's his biggest concern. Sure you want a Mahomes. SUre you want a Brady. But there's usually only one of them in the league at a time.
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I don’t think Hurts is a top guy or anything but as just a thrower I’d grade him over Lamar.
 
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