Ronald Acuna Jr. 40-40 Club

CyYoung31 said:
What will win Acuña MVP this year is that he’s, now, having a better offensive season than Betts. AND Betts’ superior defense can’t realistically provide enough value to make up the difference when they play the same position, especially when it’s one of the “least” valuable defensive positions on the field, regardless of what fWAR says.

That’s the argument for Acuña to win MVP, not a bunch of meaningless stolen bases.
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When Acuna plays 63 games of elite 2B you can start talking about their defense being similar.

And yes, Betts is significantly better in RF as well. Acuna has turned into a statue out there.
 
Nerfherders said:
Do you hate Acuna, or what? I don't understand... are you arguing just to argue?
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Nope. I’m just not a blind homer unable to think rationally.

Acuna is probably the best player in the game, and will probably continue to be the best player in the game for many years. He also has the potential to be the best hitter of this generation, if not all time.

However, this homer take that he has clearly been more valuable than Betts in 2023 based on SBs in a season with massively inflated SBs numbers league-wide, or some notion that they are similar defenders is pure stupidity blabbered by Braves homers too biased to think logically.
 
thewupk said:
Enscheff is the guy that would have voted for Trout for MVP when Miggy won the triple crown.
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I mean at least then you could build the case of Trout for defense and baserunning. Mookie's whole case is defense.

Listen I'm a stathead, but you have to acknowledge that we don't really get a great view of defensive stats. I believe Mookie is certainly a better defender than Ronnie, but Ronnie is almost 10 runs more valuable offensively. I don't really believe mookie has made that up. It's not like Acuna is Eric Hinske out there.
 
zitothebrave said:
I mean at least then you could build the case of Trout for defense and baserunning. Mookie's whole case is defense.

Listen I'm a stathead, but you have to acknowledge that we don't really get a great view of defensive stats. I believe Mookie is certainly a better defender than Ronnie, but Ronnie is almost 10 runs more valuable offensively. I don't really believe mookie has made that up. It's not like Acuna is Eric Hinske out there.
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Agreed, and I am confident Acuna will win MVP (which I actually don’t even care about). He is the best player on the best team, he’s within rounding error of being the most valuable player according to all valid metrics, and he’s done something notable from a historic sense. That’s pretty much the definition of MVP.

All I’m saying is this narrative inside the Braves bubble that Acuna is clearly more valuable than Betts is nonsense. They all rely on overvaluing Acuna’s SBs, and undervaluing Betts’ defense. For example, half the posters in this thread don’t even know Betts has played 63 games of elite 2B defense. It’s nothing more than a bunch of casual homer fans blabbering nonsense because they want their guy to win an individual award…this odd sense of pride in another man’s accomplishments that I find so creepy about sports fans.
 
Enscheff said:
Agreed, and I am confident Acuna will win MVP (which I actually don’t even care about). He is the best player on the best team, he’s within rounding error of being the most valuable player according to all valid metrics, and he’s done something notable from a historic sense. That’s pretty much the definition of MVP.

All I’m saying is this narrative inside the Braves bubble that Acuna is clearly more valuable than Betts is nonsense. They all rely on overvaluing Acuna’s SBs, and undervaluing Betts’ defense. For example, half the posters in this thread don’t even know Betts has played 63 games of elite 2B defense. It’s nothing more than a bunch of casual homer fans blabbering nonsense because they want their guy to win an individual award…this odd sense of pride in another man’s accomplishments that I find so creepy about sports fans.
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Agree. However, I would rather see Olson win the Roberto Clemente award .
 
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Enscheff said:
Agreed, and I am confident Acuna will win MVP (which I actually don’t even care about). He is the best player on the best team, he’s within rounding error of being the most valuable player according to all valid metrics, and he’s done something notable from a historic sense. That’s pretty much the definition of MVP.

All I’m saying is this narrative inside the Braves bubble that Acuna is clearly more valuable than Betts is nonsense. They all rely on overvaluing Acuna’s SBs, and undervaluing Betts’ defense. For example, half the posters in this thread don’t even know Betts has played 63 games of elite 2B defense. It’s nothing more than a bunch of casual homer fans blabbering nonsense because they want their guy to win an individual award…this odd sense of pride in another man’s accomplishments that I find so creepy about sports fans.
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1. Everyone here knows Mookie has been “forced” to fill in at 2B this season.

2. Pretty sure no one on this board is that hard up about Acuña winning an off-season award. Yeah, I’d like to see him win it because he represents my favorite team, but it doesn’t really make a difference to me. All I really care about is team success. I’m pretty sure just about everyone here feels the same way.

Once again, you make up narratives that aren’t there.
 
Enscheff said:
You didn’t read the whole article. They continued to show that more fastballs hasn’t translated to more production.

So my point stands, SBs are close to meaningless without a very high success rate.

Casual fans love them though, which is why they will win Acuna the MVP this year. The truth is Betts’ far superior defensive value more than trumps Acuna’s SBs, but again, casual fans mistake Acuna’s elite arm for elite defense.
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Actually I did read the whole article. It showed that it has led to more fastballs but it is unclear how much it has helped. It helped some… didn’t help others.
 
Enscheff said:
Agreed, and I am confident Acuna will win MVP (which I actually don’t even care about). He is the best player on the best team, he’s within rounding error of being the most valuable player according to all valid metrics, and he’s done something notable from a historic sense. That’s pretty much the definition of MVP.

All I’m saying is this narrative inside the Braves bubble that Acuna is clearly more valuable than Betts is nonsense. They all rely on overvaluing Acuna’s SBs, and undervaluing Betts’ defense. For example, half the posters in this thread don’t even know Betts has played 63 games of elite 2B defense. It’s nothing more than a bunch of casual homer fans blabbering nonsense because they want their guy to win an individual award…this odd sense of pride in another man’s accomplishments that I find so creepy about sports fans.
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Never said Acuña was clearly more valuable and I don’t think anyone here is saying that either. I just think you’re selling the SBs a little short and attributing things to posters that haven’t been said. More fastballs or not… Acuña very clearly makes pitchers nervous as hell when he’s on.

Cy is correct. You are arguing with yourself here.
 
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Enscheff is good at coming up with things that allow him to call us all stupid, even if he has to conjure up ideas that we are not actually arguing about.

It’s part of his charm, and part of what makes the board fun.

Nobody has to win every argument, except maybe Enscheff😀
 
Enscheff said:
If the next adjustment he makes is cranking the fly ball rate to 40% like he was doing in 2020/2021 he becomes an all time great.

If the next adjustment after that is to accept the walks associated with all that additional power he can become the best hitter of all time.
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That's unrealistic and over-tinkering. He starts trying to launch and his swing and miss and strikes outs go up.

I think most Braves hitters are just looking for something to hit hard. They do it as well as anybody.
 
Enscheff sounds like an entitled brat half the time, but he’s not an idiot. He’s right 95% of the time when it comes to baseball, and Betts’ positional flexibility is extremely important. That said, he’s also right that Ronnie is winning MVP.
 
zbhargrove said:
Never said Acuña was clearly more valuable and I don’t think anyone here is saying that either. I just think you’re selling the SBs a little short and attributing things to posters that haven’t been said. More fastballs or not… Acuña very clearly makes pitchers nervous as hell when he’s on.

Cy is correct. You are arguing with yourself here.
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You have a point. I’m arguing less with you all and more against the narrative I see everywhere online in the Braves bubble.
 
Enscheff said:
You have a point. I’m arguing less with you all and more against the narrative I see everywhere online in the Braves bubble.
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I don't think the narrative is that Acuna's steals inheritantly make him much more valuable than Betts. But the historical narrative that Acuna is the 5th guy to go 40/40 is what pushes him over the edge in the voting. Similar to Trout and Miggy in 2012.
 
thewupk said:
I don't think the narrative is that Acuna's steals inheritantly make him much more valuable than Betts. But the historical narrative that Acuna is the 5th guy to go 40/40 is what pushes him over the edge in the voting. Similar to Trout and Miggy in 2012.
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You aren’t seeing the same things I’m seeing I guess. Folks think they are clever listing stats side by side, highlighting all the ones Acuna leads by a small margin, then declare how obvious the race is.

They either leave out the defensive gap, or treat it like the gap isn’t massive. It’s pure homerism.
 
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