Rosenthal: Braves players frustrated with Fredi; he has "lost the clubhouse"

Knucksie said:
Agreed, and that was the reason for quoting. If one of the resident sabermetricians wants to contribute something more valuable than Google links to geekball websites, it might be valuable to compare statistics of lost DL time among active pitching coaches. That way, some sort of distinction can be made as to the specific pitching coaches philosophies being preached, which are resulting in more ACL tears. Instinct here is that it's relative similar across the major leagues, but some substantive proof would put the matter to rest.
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Even then, a pitching coach's philosophies can really only speed up injury. If a pitcher is gonna get hurt he'll get hurt. Kris Medlen had bad mechanics, if he pitched under Leo he may have gone shorter or longer before getting hurt. We don't really know. What we do know is that it would have happened. Leo had guys go under the knife before, and in general we're seeing it happen more often. I think what we're seeing with Roger is a scouting failure. Guys like Medlen and Beachy were gonna get hurt. I said it way before it happened. Hanson was gonna get hurt, Hudson was gonna get hurt. It is what it is. You deal with what you have and go from there.
 
The Don said:
I ask this question often, why do people have such a hard on for Scioscia?

Gets expensive rosters and doesn't do anything with them. There was talk when Angels GM quit there was a rift between Scioscia and the front office about analytics (Scioscia going against it).

Yes he won a world series yeats ago, but now that he's gotten big payrolls from Arte he hasn't done much at all. At least Bobby still made it to the Series or LCS. Scioscia's teams have struggled to get out of the first round just like Bobby's last few years.
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I always thought he was widely regarded as one of the top managers, results aside, in terms of being a master tactician.
 
zitothebrave said:
Even then, a pitching coach's philosophies can really only speed up injury. If a pitcher is gonna get hurt he'll get hurt. Kris Medlen had bad mechanics, if he pitched under Leo he may have gone shorter or longer before getting hurt. We don't really know. What we do know is that it would have happened. Leo had guys go under the knife before, and in general we're seeing it happen more often. I think what we're seeing with Roger is a scouting failure. Guys like Medlen and Beachy were gonna get hurt. I said it way before it happened. Hanson was gonna get hurt, Hudson was gonna get hurt. It is what it is. You deal with what you have and go from there.
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This isn't necessarily true. And how these pitchers throw between starts, their warm up routine, even how they prepare in spring training are things that a pitching coach has control over that could directly affect pitchers' health. Not saying McDowell's philosophy is bad or that it is the reason for our recent string of TJS. But it certainly could be.
 
Knucksie said:
Yes, if a pitcher excelled under Leo, he had nothing to do with it. If a pitcher spent time on the DL, it was entirely Leo's fault.
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The point is that blaming McDowell for injuries is just as idiotic as blaming Leo, Fredi, Cox, Coppy, Hart, or Schuerholz.
 
the reason i think Fredi will be here through next year and most likely beyond

our front office came out and said they weren't even going to talk to Joe Maddon when he became available

even with Fredi in what was the last year of his contract.

when a manager like Joe Maddon comes a long and your publicly say that you won't even talk to him?

you are an idiot imo and i don't trust you
 
zitothebrave said:
Even then, a pitching coach's philosophies can really only speed up injury. If a pitcher is gonna get hurt he'll get hurt. Kris Medlen had bad mechanics, if he pitched under Leo he may have gone shorter or longer before getting hurt. We don't really know. What we do know is that it would have happened.
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These matters have been discussed before, and yours truly actually opened up a thread on the topic, prior Smoltz's HOF induction. Nobody else replied, except SAV. Why didn't you?

Smoltz is in a better position than most to comment on the subject. He never once mentioned poor mechanics during the interview nor his speech. He only specifically mentioned the amount of innings kids pitch, prior to reaching the major leagues.

zitothebrave said:
Leo had guys go under the knife before, and in general we're seeing it happen more often. I think what we're seeing with Roger is a scouting failure. Guys like Medlen and Beachy were gonna get hurt. I said it way before it happened. Hanson was gonna get hurt, Hudson was gonna get hurt. It is what it is. You deal with what you have and go from there.
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Not even sure why you're mentioning these names, as Hudson had been in the majors for A LOT more years than any of the other three. It's the same old story. Posters here act as if the Braves are the only team affected by the epidemic.
 
clvclv said:
The point is that blaming McDowell for injuries is just as idiotic as blaming Leo, Fredi, Cox, Coppy, Hart, or Schuerholz.
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It's obvious, but there are still members here who do it on a consistent basis. At least there haven't been any rants about the hitting coach this year. :FrediPuzzled:
 
goldfly said:
the reason i think Fredi will be here through next year and most likely beyond

our front office came out and said they weren't even going to talk to Joe Maddon when he became available

even with Fredi in what was the last year of his contract.

when a manager like Joe Maddon comes a long and your publicly say that you won't even talk to him?

you are an idiot imo and i don't trust you
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Didn't Maddon get a 5 year/25 mil contract from the Cubs? There was no way we were coming even close to matching that
 
NYCBrave said:
Didn't Maddon get a 5 year/25 mil contract from the Cubs? There was no way we were coming even close to matching that
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i don't know but i would have paid it

but we didn't even talk to him and publicly stated we weren't

that's stupid
 
goldfly said:
i don't know but i would have paid it

but we didn't even talk to him and publicly stated we weren't

that's stupid
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So you wanted us to publicly state we were pursuing him, when we already had another manager under contract? The discussions that went on behind the scenes, we'll never know
 
NYCBrave said:
So you wanted us to publicly state we were pursuing him, when we already had another manager under contract? The discussions that went on behind the scenes, we'll never know
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They've also shut the door on the top offensive free agents and the top pitching free agents.

So not sure what we have to look forward to
 
Reacquiring Bourn was as much admitting that it was a huge mistake to not re-sign him when eyes were fixated on Bossman Jr.
 
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