Russia Collusion Scandal (aka A Leftist fantasy)

wonder if Mueller and deep state flipped Kushner before giving him the security clearance
 
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Runnin said:
It's a head-scratcher. Does he need more rope to hang himself again?
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Abbe Lowell went to some pains to avoid answering whether his client is any sort of subject, target or witness against anyone. He also volunteered that Mueller's questioning was "entirely appropriate."
 
thethe said:
Who from his inner circle again?

Flynn who the FBI agents said didn't lie?

Manafort who was indicted because of actions that predated joining the campaign?

Papa who received third party information from someone that is nowhere to be found that miraculously got relayed to a clinton ally? Oh yeah, a guy who wasn't added to the team until a haphazard listing of foriegn policy 'experts'.

These guys? Great argument you're making!!!
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You're pinning this on the assumption that Mifsud was actually a US/UK asset?

Given that he has high-level connections in Russia, it would be pretty dicey to risk exposing him just to get next to Papadopoulos. The fact that he disappeared after returning to Russia after being exposed for his GP approach doesn't really line up with your reasoning. You could squint at it and conjecture that maybe he was playing both ends against the middle, but I dunno...seems like Russia would be the last place he'd go if he thought there was a chance that he was burned.

As for the others...Flynn didn't take a deal to cooperate over a single charge of lying to investigators. If that were all the leverage they had on him, he would lawyer up hard and fight it.

Manafort's alleged offenses predate his involvement with Trump, yeah. But you're displaying some willful naïveté here. He's being pushed in hopes that he'll cooperate and offer something bigger. If he doesn't, or if there's nothing there, fine. But let's not pretend we're ignorant of how prosecutors build cases.

I'm pretty sure we'll be adding Michael Cohen to the list of close Trump associates whom you'll need to make excuses for.
 
You're pinning this on the assumption that Mifsud was actually a US/UK asset?
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No, I'm just wondering how this mysterious figure ended up being the lynchpin of a counter intelligence investigation and nobody is trying to find out more about him. I'm saying that its very convenient for this information to be passed to Papa and a Clinton ally was in the right place at the right time to then relay this information to the FBI. I mean, how did the conversation come up? Did Papa just go to random people and say, "HEY I WORK FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THE RUSSIANS ARE OFFERING US HILLARY E-MAILS!". I mean come on now, please explain a reasonable scenario where this conversation would come up in the normal course of interaction. What I believe happened, insert crazy conspiracy allegation here, is that Mifsud was directed to give this information to Papa and the Australian diplomat ensured he could coax it out of Papa. This is standard information laundering to pass through your own information and make it appear that its third party. To act like this isn't possible after seeing all the shady things the Obama DOJ and FBI have done the past few years is naive. I'd like to know more about Mifsud and exactly what his ties are to the Kremlin.

Given that he has high-level connections in Russia, it would be pretty dicey to risk exposing him just to get next to Papadopoulos. The fact that he disappeared after returning to Russia after being exposed for his GP approach doesn't really line up with your reasoning. You could squint at it and conjecture that maybe he was playing both ends against the middle, but I dunno...seems like Russia would be the last place he'd go if he thought there was a chance that he was burned.
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These are high stakes games right here. We already know that the Hillary investigation was botched. This in addition to other things that we will find out in due time were what needed ot be covered. And since indictments may follow then people are going to take that risk. And if this ultimately leads to Obama running the operation, as Strozk stated, then hell yeah its dicey but needed from their perspective.

As for the others...Flynn didn't take a deal to cooperate over a single charge of lying to investigators. If that were all the leverage they had on him, he would lawyer up hard and fight it.
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If you hadn't noticed the Flynn plea deal is heavily contested right now and I would bet the farm that it gets vacated. Rumors are now that the FBI agents want to get subpoenaed to tell the truth about that travesty.

Manafort's alleged offenses predate his involvement with Trump, yeah. But you're displaying some willful naïveté here. He's being pushed in hopes that he'll cooperate and offer something bigger. If he doesn't, or if there's nothing there, fine. But let's not pretend we're ignorant of how prosecutors build cases.
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And thats the point Judge Ellis made. This is not about Russia collusion. The perception is that Manafort is indicted therefore collusion. That narrative has been pushed everywhere when the two aren't correlated at all. The investigation is about Russia interference. The indictment again has nothing to do with it but shows yet another example about how Mueller and his team are overstepping authority.

I'm pretty sure we'll be adding Michael Cohen to the list of close Trump associates whom you'll need to make excuses for.
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Eh, I'll wait to see what happens but I'm still not seeing any Russia collusion here. Shady dealings? Yeah, I'd agree with that. Welcome to the world of international business.
 
thethe said:
No, I'm just wondering how this mysterious figure ended up being the lynchpin of a counter intelligence investigation and nobody is trying to find out more about him. I'm saying that its very convenient for this information to be passed to Papa and a Clinton ally was in the right place at the right time to then relay this information to the FBI. I mean, how did the conversation come up? Did Papa just go to random people and say, "HEY I WORK FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THE RUSSIANS ARE OFFERING US HILLARY E-MAILS!". I mean come on now, please explain a reasonable scenario where this conversation would come up in the normal course of interaction. What I believe happened, insert crazy conspiracy allegation here, is that Mifsud was directed to give this information to Papa and the Australian diplomat ensured he could coax it out of Papa. This is standard information laundering to pass through your own information and make it appear that its third party. To act like this isn't possible after seeing all the shady things the Obama DOJ and FBI have done the past few years is naive. I'd like to know more about Mifsud and exactly what his ties are to the Kremlin.
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I will grant that it is possible, but like so many other things in this sphere, it denies the simplest explanation in favor of complex and Byzantine deep-state scheming. You see shady people behaving shadily and explain it as career law-enforcement officials running black ops against the President. It strains credulity.

Here's an example: information laundering. The GRU hacks some emails and distributes them through cutouts. Your explanation is that it was in inside job covered up by the murder of the leaker. Again, it strains credulity.

Why do you assume that nobody is trying to figure out more about Mifsud? As for his connections to Russia, he bragged of his friendship with Sergei Lavrov and referred GP to an official from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. If he were indeed working for US/UK intelligence, it seems like the last thing he'd do would be bolt back to Russia.

These are high stakes games right here. We already know that the Hillary investigation was botched. This in addition to other things that we will find out in due time were what needed ot be covered. And since indictments may follow then people are going to take that risk. And if this ultimately [/b]leads to Obama running the operation, as Strozk stated,[/b]then hell yeah its dicey but needed from their perspective.
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Oh, dear.

If you hadn't noticed the Flynn plea deal is heavily contested right now and I would bet the farm that it gets vacated. Rumors are now that the FBI agents want to get subpoenaed to tell the truth about that travesty.
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I notice that you say that.

And thats the point Judge Ellis made. This is not about Russia collusion. The perception is that Manafort is indicted therefore collusion. That narrative has been pushed everywhere when the two aren't correlated at all. The investigation is about Russia interference. The indictment again has nothing to do with it but shows yet another example about how Mueller and his team are overstepping authority.
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Putting pressure on a guy who has been taking millions in off-books money from a foreign entity allied to Russia, and who volunteered to work for the Trump campaign for free while he owed millions to a Russian oligarch is very much within the purview of the investigation. I don't see how you could argue otherwise and I suspect the judge will ultimately rule on those grounds.

Eh, I'll wait to see what happens but I'm still not seeing any Russia collusion here. Shady dealings? Yeah, I'd agree with that. Welcome to the world of international business.
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So you think the same about the Clinton Foundation and Uranium One, yes?
 
So you think the same about the Clinton Foundation and Uranium One, yes?
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Clinton foundation only made money because HRC had access to the US government. You are actually trying to compare the two? Thats...well...a stretch.

If it wasn't about access to the US government then please tell me why its in effect closed now?

I will grant that it is possible, but like so many other things in this sphere, it denies the simplest explanation in favor of complex and Byzantine deep-state scheming. You see shady people behaving shadily and explain it as career law-enforcement officials running black ops against the President. It strains credulity.

Here's an example: information laundering. The GRU hacks some emails and distributes them through cutouts. Your explanation is that it was in inside job covered up by the murder of the leaker. Again, it strains credulity.

Why do you assume that nobody is trying to figure out more about Mifsud? As for his connections to Russia, he bragged of his friendship with Sergei Lavrov and referred GP to an official from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. If he were indeed working for US/UK intelligence, it seems like the last thing he'd do would be bolt back to Russia.
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Why should we assume the simplest explanation is the right one? Again, I find it very convenient that the right person was there at the right time at the right conversation to be able to be the lynchpin for this whole investigation. I guess the universe just worked out perfectly.

I hope they are trying to get more information about mifsud. I don't know why he would bolt back to Russia. I just want to learn more because I am seeing dots all over the place that don't seem to jive.
 
Clinton foundation only made money because HRC had access to the US government. You are actually trying to compare the two? Thats...well...a stretch.

So the Clinton Foundation and the U1 conspiracy theory are corrupt, criminal access peddling, but what's going on with Cohen, Broidy, Nader, Prince, et al is just bidness, i.e. NOT about buying and selling access to government? That's quite a take.
 
Julio3000 said:
Clinton foundation only made money because HRC had access to the US government. You are actually trying to compare the two? Thats...well...a stretch.

So the Clinton Foundation and the U1 conspiracy theory are corrupt, criminal access peddling, but what's going on with Cohen, Broidy, Nader, Prince, et al is just bidness, i.e. NOT about buying and selling access to government? That's quite a take.
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The new stuff with the UAE feels shady for sure and warrants further investigation. I inferred your argument was about Cohens past business dealings.
 
So Mueller has gotten wiretap info from Spanish authorities of conversations between Alexander Torshin and a Russian mob guy, per Yahoo News.

Also in the article:
"Despite the suspicions about his ties to Russian money laundering, Torshin continued to travel frequently to the United States and even showed up as part of a Russian delegation in February 2017 to the National Prayer Breakfast, where he was at one point scheduled to meet with President Trump. (The meeting was canceled the night before, after National Security Council officials raised concerns about it.)"

At this point I think it's fair to ask how this meeting was set up.
 
Julio3000 said:
So Mueller has gotten wiretap info from Spanish authorities of conversations between Alexander Torshin and a Russian mob guy, per Yahoo News.

Also in the article:
"Despite the suspicions about his ties to Russian money laundering, Torshin continued to travel frequently to the United States and even showed up as part of a Russian delegation in February 2017 to the National Prayer Breakfast, where he was at one point scheduled to meet with President Trump. (The meeting was canceled the night before, after National Security Council officials raised concerns about it.)"

At this point I think it's fair to ask how this meeting was set up.
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Torshin is probably another deep state spy
 
Ask away....at some point you guys may fund something that speaks to....well I don't know what you guys are looking for anymore
 
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