Second ('Third') Trump Presidency Thread

I've told you time and time again that I at least respect the fact that you're willing to go to bat for the ideas you believe, as opposed to every other liberal on this board.

Doing so though makes you a target of easy criticism. You have spent years and years explaining that you believe a softer approach to criminality is the proper way, so when a story as gruesome of a 14 convicted criminal murdering an innocent hits, im sorry... thats an example of the outcomes of policy you vote for. You have spent years saying we should chemically castrate children, so when an insane tranny shoots up a church full of a children, that is the outcome of a policy you support

As for your mental health... im not the type of person to coddle or sugar coat things. When you said you were taking a break, i thought it was an excuse to not have to deal with having to defend yet another gruesome murder your side committed. Its just not my style and won't ever be. If engaging with a stranger on a message board impacts your mental health negatively, then I recommend you take the thethe approach and just avoid it. As is, im sorry if I contributed to it any way, but I won't change my directness or honesty to what I think is the truth

To your credit (sadly), youre the only one on here who expressed a legitimate sadness about Kirk. The other libs seemed to take glee, and they feel nothing when Harvard professors are celebrating. and yeah, that pisses me off to no end. Both sides are getting radicalized for different reasons. The left believes we are all nazis and wants people like me dead. And the right is mad that the other side wants us dead and cheers when it happens

Its time for a national divorce before something worse happens
Just to briefly clarify, I’m not blaming you for my mental health snafu. It was going to happen regardless, and my break was intentional because whether I was being insulted or not, I wasn’t in a position to handle much of anything, much less discussions on death and violence. I apologize if it came off as if the two were causally linked.

Where I’d still push back a bit though is the concept of personal responsibility for the actions and policies of elected officials across the nation. I think the binary nature of our political system makes it such that it’s practically impossible for that to be the direct responsibility of individual voters. Short of me spending money and time I simply don’t and will never have, I cannot meaningfully influence public policy, directly or indirectly. If I think Dems are more correct about a larger amount of issues that matter to me than Republicans, I don’t have the luxury of ordering solutions a la carte. Unless you’d like for me to begin a new political movement where candidates are *slightly* less crazy to you, I’m not sure what you expect me to do about this, because shockingly Joe Biden and Kamala Harris aren’t calling me up for advice.

But these are differences in opinion on political matters and voting habits, and I wouldn’t dream of comparing that behavior to that of those celebrating Kirk’s death. What I find to have a common thread is not what you expect of me as a voter, but what you declare that says about me as a person. There’s a difference between not sugar coating something and aggressively attacking one’s character, and when you get angry about a topic such as criminality or trans people, I think you find yourself on the wrong side of that line more often than you care to admit.

But what I think triggers me personally is that when I express care for the criminally insane, Palestinian children or undocumented migrants, I’m accused of suicidal empathy. But when Charlie Kirk and others like him are essentially advocating for the elimination of trans people, is it not then suicidal empathy on their part to advocate for their well-being? My ire with the response from the left is not from misunderstanding why some of them may feel that way, it’s the abandonment of a virtue I hold dear and see others carelessly throw around as a badge of honor when it suits them, only to lose it when it doesn’t. When you sneer at the concept as a weakness, it does honestly come across as a bit empty when you suddenly demand it from others. I understand you have your own religious views and other principles that inform your sanctity for human life and opposition to criminality. For me, that’s empathy. So it frustrates me to no end that those who would belittle it in other cases now seek it, and very much frustrates me more when those who espouse it regularly just discard it when Charlie Kirk gets shot.
 
public safety seems to be a massive topic you seem to play very fast and loosely with.

I couldn’t disagree more that you are voting to put my loved ones and my loved ones people further in jeopardy

I’d evaluate that stance further.
 
public safety seems to be a massive topic you seem to play very fast and loosely with.

I couldn’t disagree more that you are voting to put my loved ones and my loved ones people further in jeopardy

I’d evaluate that stance further.
Serious question: even if I reflected further and found I agree more with Republicans on the issue, which of my other principles would you have me abandon at the voting booth? Please describe a way that I can change the national direction of the Democratic Party on this topic so that I may continue to vote for them.
 
That’s a misrepresentation of my point. My suggestion is not that these were surely not members of a Venezuelan cartel. It’s that we don’t have the right to unilaterally bomb them to save drug addicts from dying of drug overdoses.
I’m with you on this, with a “but.” If this was a known cartel boat and it wouldn’t stop for Coast Guard inspection, I’m okay with it. Coast Guard has the anti smuggling role with trained and licensed law enforcement officers on board.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mqt
This I wholly disagree with. These same communities and echo chambers exist within every major social media site, and TikTok is among the most stringent in terms of moderation of the glorification of violence. Say what you will about China, but they’re relatively good at censorship. What makes TikTok pervasive isn’t the platform owners, it’s the popularity and usability. Enforcing a TikTok ban might have actually resulted in more of this commentary, not less, as the platform that reaps the benefits of TikTok’s demise is likely to be in the hands of our current social media oligarchs.
 
Last edited:
And also - why is your approach 'lock him up for life'.

Guy should be given painful torture until death. Even then, that isn't just revenge for what this animal did.
Why do you want the government to have the right to kill citizens? I literally shook after seeing that video, and I have no problem with turning every prison into a mandatory gravel pit where they bust rocks all day. But death is permanent and I too often don’t trust the government to use capital punishment authority appropriately.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mqt
I’m with you on this, with a “but.” If this was a known cartel boat and it wouldn’t stop for Coast Guard inspection, I’m okay with it. Coast Guard has the anti smuggling role with trained and licensed law enforcement officers on board.
Yeah, at that point it’s a combination of intelligence and an observed threat fleeing the Coast Guard. At that point you can’t say for sure they aren’t going to commit actual violence. I’m almost certainly going to be a little squishier on the how and when we react than you might be, but there would be some semblance of justification for the act.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaw
As an aside... thats probably the most gruesome murder most Americans have ever seen. A shot through the neck, killed near instantly, with blood just spilling from his head.

I pray his children will be psychologically ok. I think I would do everything possible to ensure they never see that video
 
Why do you want the government to have the right to kill citizens? I literally shook after seeing that video, and I have no problem with turning every prison into a mandatory gravel pit where they bust rocks all day. But death is permanent and I too often don’t trust the government to use capital punishment authority appropriately.
Some things are very clear - Life is the ultimate blessing. Some do not deserve it.
 
Some things are very clear - Life is the ultimate blessing. Some do not deserve it.
I’ve been really trying not to invoke the faith of others in my own arguments, but I truly find this conceptually fascinating. If one believes life is the greatest blessing that can be bestowed by their Creator, I can’t fathom taking it so lightly as to hand over the authority to take it from someone to their government. I don’t want to tread carelessly here, but can you or others offer your thoughts on this?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaw
Facts and the Trump admin are like water and oil.
I genuinely can’t help but trust that if Pam Bondi and Kash Patel haven’t already held a joint press conference announcing charges against Cook by now that she may have actually just not broken any laws. And honestly I’m kind of surprised, it really doesn’t take much for me to believe that a Washington official would commit some light mortgage fraud.
 
Serious question: even if I reflected further and found I agree more with Republicans on the issue, which of my other principles would you have me abandon at the voting booth? Please describe a way that I can change the national direction of the Democratic Party on this topic so that I may continue to vote for them.
I’d say most all if them unless you don’t take your families safety very seriously

As a father/husband, it’s my #1 priority
 
It should be noted this kid missed his target. Any doo howdy in Southern Utah knows you always aim center mass.
It looked to me like it would have been right on the heart if Kirk hadn’t been wearing the vest. The ricochet up was just really unfortunate. If he had been leaning forward he is probably at home with a leg wound today.

And with a zeroed scoped on a 30-06 at 200 yards, you could consistently make that shot after half an hour at the range. It’s literally point and shoot with a target that’s sitting still. The bullet won’t even fall an inch at that range.
 
I’ve been really trying not to invoke the faith of others in my own arguments, but I truly find this conceptually fascinating. If one believes life is the greatest blessing that can be bestowed by their Creator, I can’t fathom taking it so lightly as to hand over the authority to take it from someone to their government. I don’t want to tread carelessly here, but can you or others offer your thoughts on this?
Yeah. I’m pro life as far as cold blooded killing goes. If someone is endangering you then by all means, put enough holes in them to make them a screen door. But institutionalized cold blooded killing is just something I can’t get behind.
 
Back
Top