Second ('Third') Trump Presidency Thread
- Thread starter thethe
- Start date
Not sure why, we have the 28th Amendment to protect them now.
Two quick points:
1) Lumping the neutral response in with the negative response is a good way to erroneously build consensus for something for which there’s no consensus. If I were to say, based on this same poll, 49% of people think society should do more or continue doing what it’s doing to accommodate trans people, I’d be just as correct as the person here stating 77% of people think we’ve gone too far or gone far enough. That middle 28% isn’t in your camp.
2) I’m not any more compelled by what a Democrat has to say about Trans people than I am a Republican. Civil rights have historically taken time to gain popularity, because the majority of people are not personally impacted by it.
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Just dirty work all around on the response to the inauguration move. It’s absolutely fine, and I’d argue objectively good, to not be so beholden to spectacle and tradition that you stand or sit outside in -20 degree weather for hours instead of just going the **** inside. Trump doesn’t need to be hiding from embarrassment and it doesn’t have to be a response to mysterious security threats from the globalists. It’s just going to be really, really ****ing cold outside and would be borderline reckless to subject people to an official ceremony in those conditions.
Just dirty work all around on the response to the inauguration move. It’s absolutely fine, and I’d argue objectively good, to not be so beholden to spectacle and tradition that you stand or sit outside in -20 degree weather for hours instead of just going the **** inside. Trump doesn’t need to be hiding from embarrassment and it doesn’t have to be a response to mysterious security threats from the globalists. It’s just going to be really, really ****ing cold outside and would be borderline reckless to subject people to an official ceremony in those conditions.
What I’m also saying is the framing of that poll suggests that far more than the data seems to. You cannot assume that everybody in the “reasonable balance” crowd is going to join you on taking away accommodations. You thinking your side is obviously the one of common sense does not mean the neutral people are going to agree. For what it’s worth, I think the Dems likely agree, but I don’t think the average person sees trans people existing as some existential threat and instead are just happy to go about their days not thinking about it.
Then just spend less time online, man. Log off for a week and tell me how any government policy is now affecting your life because trans people have some sort of right protected by them.
I’m blessed wokeness never infected the org that I work for.
sturg33
I
I'm one of about 5% of people who has refused. But I'm actually seeing more of the men in the org remove them since election
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Why don't you?
I have to dress a certain way to go to work. I have to follow a certain grooming code, shower, yada yada yada. We all ahve to comply to various standards for employment.
I for example don't work for places that require me to shave or not have tattoos. Cause I don't care to comply. Even if I could easily wear sleeves and pants to cover my tattoos and could shave I don't feel like dealing with razor burn.
What great disservice does it do to you to put pronouns in your email signature? It's not like they're making your dress in drag or any other number of things. It's a ****ing signature. It's the biggest nothing burger I've heard someone get pissy about in quite some time.
sturg33
I
Because its asking me to participate into a delusion and i refuse to that. It would be no different than them asking me to make a video saying the world is flat. I won't participate in something that I don't believe is true.
Additionally, it's increasing approaching compelled speech, which we've seen the nightmares of in Canada and the UK.
I would consider this an issue of your company overreaching in what it’s asking you to reveal of your personal information in the workplace more than an issue with inclusivity toward trans people. If a trans person felt unsafe revealing their pronouns in public, I’d also not want your company to ask them for their pronouns. I believe a company is justified in terminating an employee for discriminatory language, but I don’t think a company is justified in asking someone to put their pronouns in their email signature. I don’t think inclusive policies are just *always* good or right. I’d encourage your company to reconsider this policy while not believing the solution is to remove any protections for trans employees that might be there.
I’d also just put my pronouns in my bio because I don’t care if someone knows that my choice of pronouns match those of my assigned gender at birth, just as I don’t care if someone inside an office knows my clothing choices match those of my assigned gender at birth. But I respect your right not to disclose information about yourself that isn’t crucial to the company’s operations.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I mean I could argue a company not letting me grow my beard/hair out or cover up my tattoos is also compelled speech.
I just don't understand the point of resisting it. Call me a libtard or whatever but it seems like this is a weird hill to die on.
It also would be very different from what you're proposing. That's more like what Scientologists do to have leverage on their members. Your employer isn't gonna be like "look at this cuck, he put pronouns in his email" It just seems like a weird hill to die on.
Let me throw this out (of course I almost never use people's pronouns in a conversation like ever in a professional setting) what if you're in an email thread and someone named Courtney is messaging and you say "she" when talking about their message but Courtney is a man. Not trans but like Courtney Brown the former number 1 pick in the NFL. Or you have people from different cultures and you don't know them. SO you don't know if they're a man or woman because Wei is a male or female chinese name.
Just seems like a wild hill to die on.
I’d push back that forcing Sturg to put his pronouns in his email signature is still unnecessary unless Sturg is specifically concerned with being accidentally misgendered. If Sturg refused to answer an email from a client in China who misgendered him, I can see the business purpose in him adding the pronouns at that time, but I still agree it’s an unnecessary invasion of privacy to repeatedly remind Sturg to add the pronouns if he’s not experiencing such confusion. However, if a trans employee had she/her pronouns listed and Sturg obstinately refused to not use he/him pronouns in his correspondence with her, I’d accept the company’s authority to terminate him.
Having such identifiers available in an HRIS or in company templates like email signatures is a great step toward reducing these types of accidental misunderstandings and intentional discrimination in the workplace and I’m happy to share mine despite it not doing anything for me personally if it might help someone else. But I do think it’s worth protecting a worker’s right not to disclose personal information they’d like to protect, even if that reason is they’re being intentionally obstinate.
I suspect they cannot terminate Sturg for refusing to participate, or they would have done so already rather than send him a reminder every 30 days, but I’ve seen companies do some crazy ****.
sturg33
I
1. No not letting you grow a beard is more censoring than compelled speech. And there are plenty of legitimate business reasons to require employees to appear a certain way.
2. "I just don't understand the point of resisting it" I know you don't. You do what you are told like always as the covid situation clearly showed. But I'm happy to resist participating in a delusion
3. Your example is silly. The point of the pronoun brigade is because someone wants to be referred to a certain way that isn't obvious to someone else. Courtney being assumed to be a woman probably happens all the time in Courtney's life and would be seen as an obvious misunderstanding. Hell my first name is pronounced as the same as both a male and female first name and I have gotten the "she" label and it doesn't bother me at all
The funny thing is. The very same lady who is tasked with my compliance of pronouns has referred to me as "he" many times. Just makes me laugh at the absurdity of the exercise