Shelby to AZ for E. Inciarte, A. Blair, and Dansby Swanson

Horsehide Harry said:
You guys act like Inciarte is some baseball God who can't be parted with, then slam a trade that values him highly. Life is easy when you set it up to have it both ways.
Click to expand...

Dude, stop. No one has valued Inciarte that highly. There are plenty of us that don't want to part with him unless we get a piece that will clearly help us for a long time because he's a good player and under control for 5 more years. That doesn't mean we value him like we do Swanson, or that anyone else does. And even if you replaced Inciarte with Swanson in that deal, it's still likely a bad trade for the Indians.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
You guys act like Inciarte is some baseball God who can't be parted with, then slam a trade that values him highly. Life is easy when you set it up to have it both ways.

The funniest thing is that the ones who are the quickest to criticize rarely (if ever) put themselves out there with anything original. That would require opening yourselves up to criticism and we can't have that.

Is the trade heavy one way for the Braves? Sure. Is it more one way than the Swanson trade? Probably not.

Would the Indians even consider it? They would have to be desperate. But they SHOULD be desperate. They are a few bats away from contending and their window is closing with several of their SP getting ready to move on.
Click to expand...

Inciarte is the only real difference maker in the deal coming their way. Markakis is a solid player, but he is aging and expensive. Doesn't really fit in with what they are trying to do.

That same package would probably land the Indians someone like Starling Marte, CarGo, Charlie Blackmon, or Braun.
 
smootness said:
Dude, stop. No one has valued Inciarte that highly. There are plenty of us that don't want to part with him unless we get a piece that will clearly help us for a long time because he's a good player and under control for 5 more years. That doesn't mean we value him like we do Swanson, or that anyone else does. And even if you replaced Inciarte with Swanson in that deal, it's still likely a bad trade for the Indians.
Click to expand...

Again, Life is easy when you set it up to have it both ways.

According to MLB.com (and most other sources) Swanson is a top ten ranked player in baseball (#8), Blair is #56 and in AAA, and Inciarte is a "don't want to part with unless we get a player...blah, blah" (or in the words of some almost as valuable as Miller).
Frazier is #27, Bradley #93 and Naquin is likely a 4th OF, maybe a little better. That's two A ball prospects and a guy who is likely a 4th OF.

So the return from Cleveland is clearly less than what the Braves got in exchange from Arizona.

From my point of view Inciarte (who is a valuable starting ML outfielder who can play any position in the OF AND can LO for you AND plays excellent defense) plus Markakis (a veteran starting RF who's going to provide you about 2 War, and in my scenario would cost nothing in 2016 and would be relatively cheap in 17 and 18), and a 3B piece who showed promise last year for a really good prospect who is still in A ball and probably will have to move to RF (Frazier), a very good prospect (not elite) at 1B who is also an A ball guy (Bradley) and a 4th OF type guy.

Would the Indians do it? Maybe not. Could a deal be made under any circumstances? It depends on Cleveland's outlook.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Again, Life is easy when you set it up to have it both ways.

According to MLB.com (and most other sources) Swanson is a top ten ranked player in baseball (#8), Blair is #56 and in AAA, and Inciarte is a "don't want to part with unless we get a player...blah, blah" (or in the words of some almost as valuable as Miller).

Frazier is #27, Bradley #93 and Naquin is likely a 4th OF, maybe a little better. That's two A ball prospects and a guy who is likely a 4th OF.

So the return from Cleveland is clearly less than what the Braves got in exchange from Arizona.

From my point of view Inciarte (who is a valuable starting ML outfielder who can play any position in the OF AND can LO for you AND plays excellent defense) plus Markakis (a veteran starting RF who's going to provide you about 2 War, and in my scenario would cost nothing in 2016 and would be relatively cheap in 17 and 18), and a 3B piece who showed promise last year for a really good prospect who is still in A ball and probably will have to move to RF (Frazier), a very good prospect (not elite) at 1B who is also an A ball guy (Bradley) and a 4th OF type guy.

Would the Indians do it? Maybe not. Could a deal be made under any circumstances? It depends on Cleveland's outlook.
Click to expand...

Cleveland is not Arizona. No one is Arizona. Pretending we may get similar deals from other teams is a waste of time.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Again, Life is easy when you set it up to have it both ways.

According to MLB.com (and most other sources) Swanson is a top ten ranked player in baseball (#8), Blair is #56 and in AAA, and Inciarte is a "don't want to part with unless we get a player...blah, blah" (or in the words of some almost as valuable as Miller).
Frazier is #27, Bradley #93 and Naquin is likely a 4th OF, maybe a little better. That's two A ball prospects and a guy who is likely a 4th OF.

So the return from Cleveland is clearly less than what the Braves got in exchange from Arizona.

From my point of view Inciarte (who is a valuable starting ML outfielder who can play any position in the OF AND can LO for you AND plays excellent defense) plus Markakis (a veteran starting RF who's going to provide you about 2 War, and in my scenario would cost nothing in 2016 and would be relatively cheap in 17 and 18), and a 3B piece who showed promise last year for a really good prospect who is still in A ball and probably will have to move to RF (Frazier), a very good prospect (not elite) at 1B who is also an A ball guy (Bradley) and a 4th OF type guy.

Would the Indians do it? Maybe not. Could a deal be made under any circumstances? It depends on Cleveland's outlook.
Click to expand...

Harry, I love you, man. I love your enthusiasm and your creative thinking. You bring a lot to the board. This one's a little far out there, dude.

Though I agree, weird **** happens when a team is close. I don't think the Indians are close...yet. And I hope they don't think there are.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Cleveland has a chance to win the AL central if they address their OF needs.
Click to expand...

And the Braves have a chance to win the NL East if they address their offensive needs.

Oh yeah - and Trump has a chance to not be one of the biggest *ssholes on the planet if...nah, that might be going a little far.
 
nsacpi said:
What would u put their odds of winning the division with and without the OF upgrade u are proposing.
Click to expand...

I would put the odds for Cleveland with the trade at 25%. Without at 10%.

I think the AL Central is wide open. KC still has a great pen, but the rotation is very iffy. Chicago has added more than just about any team in the offseason. Just have to see if it will gel. Detroit has the offense and some good top end SP but the pen is going to suck and the back end of the rotation is bad and their starting 9 is old and fragile. Minnesota has almost no chance unless their young guys blossom over night.

Cleveland has the best starters 1-5 in the division. They have the 2nd or 3rd best pen. They are short on power but have two stars in Brantley and Lindor with Kipnis not far behind. What Cleveland Really needs is Freddie Freeman but I don't see that in the cards.

Right now I see it KC 30%, Chicago 25%, Cleveland (with an OF trade) 20%, Detroit 20%, Minnesota 5%
 
smootness said:
Cleveland is not Arizona. No one is Arizona. Pretending we may get similar deals from other teams is a waste of time.
Click to expand...

Oakland is not Arizona yet they traded Addison Russell, Billy McKinney, Dan Straily and cash to the Cubs for Samardzija and 1/2 season of Jason Hammel.

These trades CAN happen. It boils down to finding a team with a need whose willing to roll the dice a bit. True it doesn't happen every day. But it does happen.
 
The Indians are VERY short on payroll space, so Markakis would never work for them without most of his contract being covered. So Markakis plus something like $25M might be enough to get a top 25 guy like Zimmer, or a top 50 guy like Frazier.

Inciarte might get one of those guys all by himself, so it' not crazy to think Inciarte plus Markakis plus lots of cash could net the Braves both Zimmer and Frazier.

It all depends on whether or not they want to move their competitive window up and trade some future years of Zimmer/Frazier for current years of Inciarte/Markakis.

Other teams, like the O's and Rangers, appear to be in more of a "win now" mode and would probably make better trade partners, though the O's don't really have much in the prospect cupboard worth trading for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top