Sherman: Braves offered Heyward 80M after 2013

clvclv said:
As long as somebody else pays him, I could care less what he gets personally.

Play with the numbers all you want Zito - the Cardinals (and the Braves as a matter of fact) are winning in spite of him, not because of him.
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The Braves winning in spite of Heyward is one of the sillier things I've read here in quite some time. That's just a bizarre sentiment.

I'll bet we'll be revisiting that one, along with "$150M for Heyward may not be twice as bad as $75M for BJ, but it's close."
 
how much better would Heyward be than Maybin in RF? They are starting to look like similar hitters and I think if Maybin can handle CF he can handle RF. He has an arm.

I really disagree that we should spend on FA this off season. I don't like any of those guys on long term deals.

If we do spend on FA, then I'd go for a high annual value and a low length of contract. I'd see if JUp would take 2/50 with a 20 million club option for a year or two.

If we "have" to spend money this season I'd look for value. Look to extend guys like Miller or maybe further extend Simmons? See if there is a talent you can get cheap b/c he's a little overpaid. Etc.

Signing guys to contracts over 3 years guaranteed scares me. If you feel like you have to spend money then you can get yourself into another BJ Upton scenario really fast.

Besides....won't there be some Cuban guys to pop up for us to throw stupid money at?
 
zitothebrave said:
There's no numbers to play with. The Braves won a lot with Jason Heyward. Infact without 2 epic collapses the Braves would have been in the playoffs every year Jason was on the team. DOn't give me BS about the Braves winning in spite of him.
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I loved what Jason brought the last few years for us. My concern is what his production will be in the future. I don't agree that you can just plug in his prior results and fit it into a nice regression model based on every player like him in the past. There are real problems that he needs to fix.
 
zitothebrave said:
There's no numbers to play with. The Braves won a lot with Jason Heyward. Infact without 2 epic collapses the Braves would have been in the playoffs every year Jason was on the team. DOn't give me BS about the Braves winning in spite of him.
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And Heyward had NO hand in those "collapses", right???

Sept./Oct. 2012 - .259/.300/.411/.711, 75 tOPS+, 19/7 K/BB, 3 HRs, 6 2Bs, 1 3B

Sept./Oct. 2014 - .235/.329/.310/.635, 73 tOPS+, 10/8 K/BB, 0 HRs, 5 2Bs
 
clvclv said:
And Heyward had NO hand in those "collapses", right???

Sept./Oct. 2012 - .259/.300/.411/.711, 75 tOPS+, 19/7 K/BB, 3 HRs, 6 2Bs, 1 3B

Sept./Oct. 2014 - .235/.329/.310/.635, 73 tOPS+, 10/8 K/BB, 0 HRs, 5 2Bs
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Everyone played a hand in those collapses. Glad you glossed over my overall point. Braves won a lot of games with Jason Heyward on their roster, IIRC more than any team in baseball in the same time span.
 
To me, Heyward is Claudel Washington without the nose candy.

He's a nice player and provides really good defense but his bat is short for RF. Since his offense isn't really good for a RF, that makes any team that signs him have to find that missing offense from some other position. This makes him even more expensive since you likely will have to overpay at another position, relative to average, say such as 2B, to find the offense that he doesn't provide relative to what you would like to see out of a RF.

Markakis does this to the Braves, only more so. Markakis is the Sid Bream of RF.
 
zitothebrave said:
There's no numbers to play with. The Braves won a lot with Jason Heyward. Infact without 2 epic collapses the Braves would have been in the playoffs every year Jason was on the team. DOn't give me BS about the Braves winning in spite of him.
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Not last year, 2011?

I agree.

Last years team was so flawed its not even funny.
 
zitothebrave said:
I think if he stays around where he is now he signs like a 3/40 type of deal maybe a little more. Something that gives him some guaranteed money, but he'll still have another FA in his 20s.
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If this is what indeed it comes down to, sign me up with Heyward coming back to the Braves. Like I've said many times, he's been an enigma but something just has not allowed him to reach his potential. The potential is still there. We get a good player for 16 million a year that may burst out in his prime. Working with Seitzer may work wonders and help him realize his potential. And if he doesn't, well you're still getting an elite baserunner and defensive player at a position of need in the short term, and move on. But unless something drastically changes, someone will overpay for "potential". We've seen it before and we will see it again, just whomever signs him to that mega deal better hope he realizes that potential so I don't see it happening unless everyone in baseball sours on Heyward.

A Markakis, Maybin, Heyward outfield would be pretty good in my opinion, and add a guy like Cunningham into the mix as the 4th outfielder and a weakness all of a sudden becomes a strength.

Maybin is starting to remind me more and more of Mike Cameron, and I think he can be that type of player. Remember Cameron in his prime was a huge part of the success that they had in Seattle. A gold glove caliber center fielder who can hit for some power.
 
zitothebrave said:
There's no numbers to play with. The Braves won a lot with Jason Heyward. Infact without 2 epic collapses the Braves would have been in the playoffs every year Jason was on the team. DOn't give me BS about the Braves winning in spite of him.
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Well, the Braves have also won a lot of games with Fredi Gonzalez as the manager. That hasn't stopped people from desperately wanting to fire him. Personally, I'd love to see Jason back in Atlanta. I think he is a good player who has the potential to be great. At this point though, that greatness is just potential. I don't want to tie up a bunch of money into him when he is going to produce like he has for the majority of his career.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
To me, Heyward is Claudel Washington without the nose candy.

He's a nice player and provides really good defense but his bat is short for RF. Since his offense isn't really good for a RF, that makes any team that signs him have to find that missing offense from some other position. This makes him even more expensive since you likely will have to overpay at another position, relative to average, say such as 2B, to find the offense that he doesn't provide relative to what you would like to see out of a RF.

Markakis does this to the Braves, only more so. Markakis is the Sid Bream of RF.
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but could he fight like Claudel Washington

 
So nobody cares to speculate whether or not Heyward was lying by saying he wasn't offered a deal until hte end of 2012?
 
chop2chip said:
Why get angry at a game of "he said, she said"?

Heyward isn't a villain. He doesn't have to be one to justify the trade either.
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I just didn't care for the hatred directed towards the front office especially those that said they were snake in the grass liars.

I will always root for Heyward to succeed. I just wish posters were accountable for things they have said in the past that were clearly wrong.
 
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