Shootings In Las Vegas

[Jaw]

I think it's irrelevant either way, but if we want to go there...

When any whack job out there can easily acquire the tools to kill dozens of people in the time it takes to type this, I'd say the future was already pretty bleak. I'd guess there's essentially zero chance of my ever witnessing an ISIS attack. I can't say the same for incidents of gun violence. Which is more rational to fear?

Well, one whack job could have hijacked a plane and flown it into a building 16 years ago. Instead there was an entire organization together that hijacked several of them. More crazy and more coordinated crazy are never good things, that's all.

 

[thethe]

It is absolutely worse when attacks are perpetrated by a highly organized well funded global terrorist organization. Thinking anything else is just political driven IMO.

 

[Julio3000]

It is absolutely worse when attacks are perpetrated by a highly organized well funded global terrorist organization. Thinking anything else is just political driven IMO.

Heh.

 

[thethe]

Heh.

What else could it possibly be. How could anyone not think that being attached as an extension of ISIS is not worse than a lone deranged gunman? What is more likely to repeat?

Are you guys completely blind to what is happening in Europe and the rest of the world? Seriously?

 

[57Brave]

This interesting point:

Eric Wolfson‏ @EricWolfson 42m42 minutes ago

Eric Wolfson Retweeted Greg Sargent

"Let's decouple the argument over the individual gun right from the argument over gun violence."

 

[Jaw]

Casualty count updated to 58 dead, 515 wounded.

 

[Hawk]

This interesting point:

Eric Wolfson‏ @EricWolfson 42m42 minutes ago

Eric Wolfson Retweeted Greg Sargent

"Let's decouple the argument over the individual gun right from the argument over gun violence."

I think we can (and should) decouple handguns and rifles from automatic and semi-automatic assault rifles, too. If there ever was a time to make moves on re-instituting that ban, you'd have to think it would be right now.

 

[Hawk]

Vegas suspect's estranged father was notorious bank robber who spent years on FBI’s “Ten Most Wanted Fugitives” list

 

[Jaw]

I think we can (and should) decouple handguns and rifles from automatic and semi-automatic assault rifles, too. If there ever was a time to make moves on re-instituting that ban, you'd have to think it would be right now.

A coworker spent $500 on a .22 caliber "assault rifle." I have an old semi automatic Winchester .22 that I inherited. The biggest differences between the two guns are cosmetic, mine looks like a hunting rifle (it is), and his looks like a military rifle (it is not). Functionally, my hunting rifle has a higher capacity magazine, will fire faster, and is far more accurate.

The problem with saying you want to ban "assault rifles", is that "assault rifle" is a BS term made up by anti gun politicians and media writers, and then adopted by the DoJ. A real assault weapon, as defined by the military, has a fully automatic capability.

There is a clip of Don Lemon talking about how easily he was able to buy "an automatic weapon" after the Colorado shooting a few years back. This clip is an excellent example of the danger of allowing people who are completely ignorant of firearms to frame the discussion around firearms.

 

[Hawk]

A coworker spent $500 on a .22 caliber "assault rifle." I have an old semi automatic Winchester .22 that I inherited. The biggest differences between the two guns are cosmetic, mine looks like a hunting rifle (it is), and his looks like a military rifle (it is not). Functionally, my hunting rifle has a higher capacity magazine, will fire faster, and is far more accurate.

The problem with saying you want to ban "assault rifles", is that "assault rifle" is a BS term made up by anti gun politicians and media writers, and then adopted by the DoJ. A real assault weapon, as defined by the military, has a fully automatic capability.

There is a clip of Don Lemon talking about how easily he was able to buy "an automatic weapon" after the Colorado shooting a few years back. This clip is an excellent example of the danger of allowing people who are completely ignorant of firearms to frame the discussion around firearms.

Very true. How would you frame that distinction? By clip capacity? Rate of rounds?

 

[Jaw]

They are both semi automatic rifles in my mind. What is popularly referred to as an assault rifle just mimics the appearance of a military weapon. I think these guns are similar to pit bulls, in that they suffer based in part on their own reputation but more because of society's perception of the people who are typically the owners. We see AR 15s and think of crazy neo Nazi militia groups eating MREs in rural Idaho. We see a hunting rifle and think of a redneck shooting deer. Functionally the deer hunter probably has a better weapon, but he doesn't give off the crazy vibe. I will never own a weapon with a military appearance due to this perception.

I guess you could place a limit on magazine capacity, but there are already hundreds of millions of magazines in this country that exceed what most gun control enthusiasts would want. Sorry, I waded into this without any good suggestions for a solution. It isn't an easy problem to solve.

I will say that this is the first mass shooting where I didn't say "If the guy had known what he was doing it would have been far worse." Firing a full auto from that range into a crowd of 30,000 people is just about as bad a scenario as you can get with a gun. I'm very curious to know how he got a full auto. I am pro gun rights, but I don't believe any of those should be in our country outside of the military. Mass casualties are almost guaranteed with one of these weapons.

 

[Julio3000]

I think we can (and should) decouple handguns and rifles from automatic and semi-automatic assault rifles, too. If there ever was a time to make moves on re-instituting that ban, you'd have to think it would be right now.

Yeah, that's a point that I wish we could achieve some clarity on as part of the conversation. One of many. The problem is that there is an industry lobby which has both co-opted an entire political party and metamorphosed into an instrument of culture war whose point of view is that no gun regs are ok, ever, and that no time is ever appropriate to have the conversation.

 

[Julio3000]

A coworker spent $500 on a .22 caliber "assault rifle." I have an old semi automatic Winchester .22 that I inherited. The biggest differences between the two guns are cosmetic, mine looks like a hunting rifle (it is), and his looks like a military rifle (it is not). Functionally, my hunting rifle has a higher capacity magazine, will fire faster, and is far more accurate.

The problem with saying you want to ban "assault rifles", is that "assault rifle" is a BS term made up by anti gun politicians and media writers, and then adopted by the DoJ. A real assault weapon, as defined by the military, has a fully automatic capability.

There is a clip of Don Lemon talking about how easily he was able to buy "an automatic weapon" after the Colorado shooting a few years back. This clip is an excellent example of the danger of allowing people who are completely ignorant of firearms to frame the discussion around firearms.

I think this is a fair and reasonable point, but it only goes so far where the rubber meets the road. If you have a good-faith interest in keeping people safe, it seems to me that you should be able to propose some reasonable solutions instead of just gun-pedantry. This seems to be a case where the bumper sticker slogans fall pretty flat.

 

[thethe]

Neighbor reported that the shooter was away form his home for 6 months last year. Wonder where he went.

 

[thethe]

Not sure how credible but some outlets are reporting that the shooter had ISIS and antiFA material in the hotel room.

 

[thethe]

VP at CBS fired after saying VEGAS victims did not deserve sympathy because country music fans are often republican.

Yeah - the media is not biased at all!!!

 

[Julio3000]

Neighbor reported that the shooter was away form his home for 6 months last year. Wonder where he went.

To Raqqa where he received weapons training and swore fealty to the Caliphate, obviously.

But are you sure you want to go with ISIS vs the whole liberal false-flag thing?

 

[Jaw]

I think this is a fair and reasonable point, but it only goes so far where the rubber meets the road. If you have a good-faith interest in keeping people safe, it seems to me that you should be able to propose some reasonable solutions instead of just gun-pedantry. This seems to be a case where the bumper sticker slogans fall pretty flat.

Oh I think the solution is simple if you just want to prevent mass casualty shootings.

Ban clips and clip fed weapons.

The problem is that there is no chance this happens. Even if you managed to stop new production you would still have tens if not hundreds of millions of clip fed guns already here.

 

[thethe]

To Raqqa where he received weapons training and swore fealty to the Caliphate, obviously.

But are you sure you want to go with ISIS vs the whole liberal false-flag thing?

I've never been a false flag kind of guy.

Important to note that ISIS has not (well I believe they haven't) laid claim to these types of attacks without it being factual.

 

[Julio3000]

I've never been a false flag kind of guy.

Important to note that ISIS has not (well I believe they haven't) laid claim to these types of attacks without it being factual.

So this guy fits the profile for Westerners recruited by ISIS, huh? And Antifa, too? That strikes me as incredibly convenient. Maybe you should share some of the sources that you're learning this from.