SP options

Did anyone else see Dero’s trade proposal on MLB network?

We’d give up Riley, Wight and Anderson and get back Devers, Eovaldi and cash.

Lol I’d hope the cash would cover every penny of Eovaldi’s contract. Our offense would be insane but we’d be seriously f’d in terms of pitching. We’d have to exclusively fix our rotation via free agency. I’m not entirely opposed to that with our luck in developing pitching, but it would certainly be an interesting trade. Thoughts?
 
Problem with Seager is his 22 option becomes a player option which he'd surely opt into. I dont know if AA wants to do that.

Right. but it's the type of win-now trade you make when you have as many pieces in place as we do right now. There's not another 3B in the system that will be ready by 2022 unless you move Shewmake over, so it would be like the one-year gamble we've taken the last two years to get a big bat to hit behind Freddie. Freddie's deal comes off the books at that point, so that money would be freed-up in the event you can't get him to go year-to-year. If you have Fried, Soroka, Gonzales, and Wright/Anderson/Muller under control inexpensively for 2022, you could look into bringing Ozuna back on a 1 year deal and you'd still have significant money to spend on a rotation spot even if you couldn't make a play for Bauer - AND no long-term commitments to anyone other than Acuna and Albies.
 
What is the rationale for folks thinking a pitcher like Clevinger is available from a team currently 14-9 and legit WS contenders?

Like...why would they even consider it?

Maybe AA should ask the Yankees about Cole?
Just saw on The Athletic that Bowden has posited 2 separate trade deals for Clevinger and Plesac. Neither deal is a back breaker IMO.
 
BR did some proposed deals, had Braves getting Boyd for a package around Waters. Called him expendable. Maybe last year he gets Waters, this year not a chance.
 
What is the rationale for folks thinking a pitcher like Clevinger is available from a team currently 14-9 and legit WS contenders?

Like...why would they even consider it?

Maybe AA should ask the Yankees about Cole?

Well, Lindor is probably going to get Betts'd this winter. And maybe get some future controllable players. Not saying they'll trade Clevinger but just some rationale thinking about it. The way the Indians develop pitching, who the hell knows?
 
Did anyone else see Dero’s trade proposal on MLB network?

We’d give up Riley, Wight and Anderson and get back Devers, Eovaldi and cash.

Lol I’d hope the cash would cover every penny of Eovaldi’s contract. Our offense would be insane but we’d be seriously f’d in terms of pitching. We’d have to exclusively fix our rotation via free agency. I’m not entirely opposed to that with our luck in developing pitching, but it would certainly be an interesting trade. Thoughts?

That's not terrible but Eovaldi's contract is not good. I think whoever we trade for is going to be cheap in terms of prospects and money. Dont know how deep into the prospect pool AA is going to dig into. Anyone who can go 6 innings, 3 runs is a godsend with what we're throwing right now. Basically going 4 openers and Max lol.
 
I just don't see a fit with the Indians. First, I don't think they see Clevinger and/or Plesac as surplus.

Second, they need immediate ML OF help. The Braves don't really have that. Even IF Pache were made available, and he would likely have to be to get Clevinger, that is no immediate help guarantee.

If Ender weren't completely face planting, same for Riley and Camargo, then you might have something to build a package around.

I'd do the Riley, Wright, Anderson trade for Devers and Eovaldi today but I don't see why Boston would unless you can convince Boston that Wright is a Giolito or Glasnow waiting for a change of scenery to happen.

I think it will be bit parts that the Braves hope to fix that will cost little except a willingness to take on the money.
 
Don't get your expectations up for a big trade. Half the teams will make the playoffs, so there will be fewer sellers. And even the teams that are sellers won't be able to adequately scout any eligible prospects worth trading for.

The guys most likely to be traded are the retreads like Derek Holland or Trevor Cahill. Or maybe the Angels will give us our old friend JT if they don't get any better over the next few days.
 
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So the theory is a team trying to compete this year and needs offense this year will send the Braves a pitcher with multiple years of control in exchange for an OF prospect that won’t help them in this current year of contention? Because that pitcher went to a bar?

Do folks actually think about this stuff before publishing it?
Contact Morosi and the people that work for this webpages too.
 
I think a trade will happen, but it likely won’t be any big names. It will be a buy low with control (someone like we did with Gausman)....like maybe a Joe Musgrove. I do not see them letting AA take on very much salary either.

Heck, could even be Gausman. I always thought AA was a little quick to cut him. Just like Folty, but we were lucky that he was not claimed. I guess with no options...not much of a choice.
 
So the theory is a team trying to compete this year and needs offense this year will send the Braves a pitcher with multiple years of control in exchange for an OF prospect that won’t help them in this current year of contention? Because that pitcher went to a bar?

Do folks actually think about this stuff before publishing it?

Baseball writers for the CLeveland Plain Dealer posted an article couple days ago that gives some credibility to the idea of moving one or both of the Indians guys. Tho I highly doubt that Pache would be a headliner in the deal.
 
So the theory is a team trying to compete this year and needs offense this year will send the Braves a pitcher with multiple years of control in exchange for an OF prospect that won’t help them in this current year of contention? Because that pitcher went to a bar?

Do folks actually think about this stuff before publishing it?

I'm likewise highly skeptical that Cleveland trades Clevinger and/or Plesac, ultimately, due to the rifts they've caused in the organization—but the rifts are well-reported and real. Multiple outlets have relayed that current clubhouse members have made their displeasure very clear—Lindor in particular—with at least a couple Cleveland players going as far as to say they'd opt out if Clevinger and Plesac were allowed to rejoin the team this season.

So say what you will about the actual likelihood that either are traded (Cleveland probably makes out better just leaving them off the active roster for the remainder of 2020 and gaining the extra service time), and ditto the Braves' fitness as a trading partner for Cleveland (I think Waters would be a good centerpiece, but as you alluded he's not someone who's likely to help them this year). Regardless, posters aren't pulling this possibility out of thin-ass air. There a real, if exogenous, reasons Cleveland would pursue a trade—and the team obviously views the situation as much more serious than "a pitcher went to a bar"—especially in Clevinger's case, since he subsequently lied about breaking protocol and boarded the team charter (which also happened to include a guy recovering from leukemia).
 
Would imagine you could add Alex Cobb to the list depending on how much money the Orioles would be willing to eat.

Contrary to what the "experts" are saying in the papers/online or on TV and radio, there's plenty of pitching out there to be had already - it just depends on how far you're willing to go and whether you have ownership's OK to take on money. The good thing in making a move early like Philadelphia did with their pen is that you get reinforcements before the bidding gets intense - of course better options could become available if you're patient too. There are different tiers of cost to obtain - this is likely to be the deciding factor for AA since only he knows how legitimate a chance there is that we could add Hamels and Folty in a few weeks. PLENTY of options - really easy to make a mistake too...


Multiple Or High-End Prospect Cost

1.) Lynn
2.) Clevinger
3.) Plesac
3.) Gonzales

At Least Mid-Tier Prospect Cost

1.) Taijuan Walker
2.) Mike Minor
3.) Derek Holland
4.) Boyd
5.) Fulmer


How Much Money Can You Absorb?

1.) Eovaldi
2.) Cobb
 
I think a trade will happen, but it likely won’t be any big names. It will be a buy low with control (someone like we did with Gausman)....like maybe a Joe Musgrove. I do not see them letting AA take on very much salary either.

Heck, could even be Gausman. I always thought AA was a little quick to cut him. Just like Folty, but we were lucky that he was not claimed. I guess with no options...not much of a choice.

Considering salaries are cheaper this year, we could take on a bigger name. But we'll trade for someone, basically have to, but yeah i dont think it'll be anything substantial. Just someone who can eat innings. Maybe AA proves me and others wrong.
 
I'm likewise highly skeptical that Cleveland trades Clevinger and/or Plesac, ultimately, due to the rifts they've caused in the organization—but the rifts are well-reported and real. Multiple outlets have relayed that current clubhouse members have made their displeasure very clear—Lindor in particular—with at least a couple Cleveland players going as far as to say they'd opt out if Clevinger and Plesac were allowed to rejoin the team this season.

So say what you will about the actual likelihood that either are traded (Cleveland probably makes out better just leaving them off the active roster for the remainder of 2020 and gaining the extra service time), and ditto the Braves' fitness as a trading partner for Cleveland (I think Waters would be a good centerpiece, but as you alluded he's not someone who's likely to help them this year). Regardless, posters aren't pulling this possibility out of thin-ass air. There a real, if exogenous, reasons Cleveland would pursue a trade—and the team obviously views the situation as much more serious than "a pitcher went to a bar"—especially in Clevinger's case, since he subsequently lied about breaking protocol and boarded the team charter (which also happened to include a guy recovering from leukemia).

Just a guess on my part but based on what I see looking at Baseball Reference Indians stats I would think something like Duvall or Flowers along with a good prospect bat would be needed to get either Plesac or Clevenger. A lot is going to depend on how AA attacks the SP issue and just how much relevance is placed on the 2020 season.
 
Eovaldi/Bogaerts is interesting. I think you have to be willing to take on some money if you don’t want to get fleeced with 50% of teams being contenders.
 
Would imagine you could add Alex Cobb to the list depending on how much money the Orioles would be willing to eat.

Contrary to what the "experts" are saying in the papers/online or on TV and radio, there's plenty of pitching out there to be had already - it just depends on how far you're willing to go and whether you have ownership's OK to take on money. The good thing in making a move early like Philadelphia did with their pen is that you get reinforcements before the bidding gets intense - of course better options could become available if you're patient too. There are different tiers of cost to obtain - this is likely to be the deciding factor for AA since only he knows how legitimate a chance there is that we could add Hamels and Folty in a few weeks. PLENTY of options - really easy to make a mistake too...


Multiple Or High-End Prospect Cost

1.) Lynn
2.) Clevinger
3.) Plesac
3.) Gonzales

At Least Mid-Tier Prospect Cost

1.) Taijuan Walker
2.) Mike Minor
3.) Derek Holland
4.) Boyd
5.) Fulmer


How Much Money Can You Absorb?


1.) Eovaldi
2.) Cobb

The Seager/Walker package still seems really intriguing, and potentially a way to save on prospect-cost if the Braves are willing to absorb a lot of Seager's salary (about $4m left on his 2020 prorata, plus $18.5m in 2021, and a $15m 2022 team-option that becomes a player-option if he's traded).

Walker's got a 4.95 fip and a 4.81 xfip, but his walk-rate's been solid (2.67 bb/9), and even if he starts pitching closer to that fip/xfip (4.00 era currently), he's still likely an upgrade to the Braves' in-house options in the rotation. If you generously think he keeps pitching to close out the season as well as he has heretofore, and figure 0.3 war, that means he'd be worth about 2.5m in SV after accounting for the ~$300k owed him over the final month of the season.

Seager is harder to price, because a lot depends on whether you think he's closer to the 2.9 war player he was in 2019 (much less the 5.8 war/162 player he's pacing this year), or the 1.7/1.2 war player ZiPS projects him in 2021/2022. It's the difference between his contract being under water, or having some surplus. Given his age (33), and three-year production prior to this season (3.5, 1.5, 2.9), I'd be skeptical of a value over 4.0 war for the remainder of 2020 plus 2021–22—but let's be generous and say 5.0, since he does seem to genuinely be hitting well this season (.280 babip isn't crazy; .380 woba but .391 xwoba, so he's actually been a tad unlucky), or SV of around $7.5m.

For the combined package, that's $10m SV making pretty generous assumptions about the players the Mariners would be trading; add in $10m from the Mariners, bringing the total outlay from ~$45m to ~$35m, and you're at $20m in value. That's about in-line with a 50 FV prospect in Bryce Wilson's range, though some 35/40 FV sweetening would probably be necessary. Maybe they'd have interest in taking a flier on a guy like Trey Harris or Patrick Weigel, each of whom probably doesn't have a future in Atlanta (the former because of the surfeit of good young OFs, the latter because of the tea-leaves: namely, that the Braves still haven't called him up at this point).
 
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