Still a lot left to do
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Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I think the Cubs would pull the trigger since Inciarte and Teheran are just about perfect for their current needs. Inciarte allows them to move Heyward to RF where they would have arguably the best defensive RF and CF in baseball. They could live with Schwarber in LF especially if they bring up Almora to be defensive replacement or Coghlan continues to develop. Inciarte also becomes a true LO man for them allowing them to go: CF Inciarte, 2B Zobrist, 3B Bryant, 1B Rizzo, RF Heyward, SS Russell, LF Schwarber/Coghlan, C Montero. Losing Baez and Soler does hurt their RH versatility but that shouldn't be a problem for that line up. Teheran slots in at #4 for them but offers insurance should Lackey or Lester falter.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
Baez is blocked by some talent and some money. Could we get Baez for Inciarte? Or Inciarte and a little something else?
I think Baez is a much better player. But if Inciarte fits their needs so well and Baez is blocked....
I think Baez is a much better player. But if Inciarte fits their needs so well and Baez is blocked....
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I think the Braves value Inciarte more than Baez. I have a feeling they would ask for more from the Cubs.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
Why?
I think Baez is a better player. And the drop from inciarte to mallex I think would be less than Baez at 3b over Garcia.
I assume we'd ask for contreras or an arm with Baez but settle for less
I think Baez is a better player. And the drop from inciarte to mallex I think would be less than Baez at 3b over Garcia.
I assume we'd ask for contreras or an arm with Baez but settle for less
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I think that if the Braves have Inciarte in the plans long term then that makes Mallex's value almost zero to the Braves. They won't have TWO light hitting CF types in the outfield at the same time, probably can't given the lack of power/production at other positions.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Baez may have more potential, but in no way can you say he's been a better player. Its not about their minor league numbers... thus far Inciarte has been a vastly superior MLB player.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
yes, that is the difference. Baez thus far in the majors has a 38% K rate and a .200 avg in over 300 plate appearances..
You know who we just shipped off who was a good prospect but didn't hit well with less than 300 plate appearances..
So potential is great.. but Inciarte has proven to be ~3 War player in his two years as a pro.. Baez is a negative War player.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Just saw on MLBTR that the Nats apparently wanted Inciarte and were willing to send Gio for him. I wonder if the Nats would consider a Inciarte & Teheran swap for Giolito and Michael Taylor. Apparently they really wanted Inciarte for CF. Now, I doubt the Nats would do it, but I think I would ask.
And before anyone jumps in with the "don't trade within the division BS" spare me. With the advent of FA and the wild card that really has no current relevance.
And before anyone jumps in with the "don't trade within the division BS" spare me. With the advent of FA and the wild card that really has no current relevance.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I don't think they want to trade Giolito.. I am not a huge fan of Taylor. I hear Gio name a lot with that team... they must really believe that he is going to continue to trend down and become untradeable. or maybe they are trying to free up a little cash to throw at Stras.
Personally, I think there is better return for the Braves with a Julio/ender package.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
If they go Giolito in the trade, I think I do it. I like the idea of a Giolito/Newcomb 1,2. But, I also see the need for run producing bats, specifically RH bats, so I like the Baez & Soler trade as well.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
Giolito has all the stuff to be a #1... my biggest worry with him is injury. I have seen video and he throws so hard and his curve creates a ton of torque on his arm. I wonder what his grade for future injury is at. He is already finished with one TJS.. that being said... I can't say I am against that trade.
Baez/Soler scare me too.. maybe I am just a wimp.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I don't think there are likely to be any no risk deals. Both Soler and Baez K quite a bit but are young and have a history of good performance. As for Giolito, I agree about injury, BUT Smoltz seemed to struggle with injury throughout his career and still ended up in the HOF. Sometimes you have to gamble. I've always thought that IF you gamble it should be for something that if you win it might mean something.
I am not at all in favor of trading Teheran right now unless we're just blown away. We like to think that we're now stocked in pitching talent and can afford to ship him, but he's literally the only guy we have now who has any kind of track record at the major-league level. You have to at least give it some more time to see how many of these prospects can become something.
A rotation of Newcomb/Wisler/Blair/Folty/Jenkins could be good or it could be disastrous. Teheran is still a big piece for us, and his contract is a steal.
A rotation of Newcomb/Wisler/Blair/Folty/Jenkins could be good or it could be disastrous. Teheran is still a big piece for us, and his contract is a steal.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I was thinking about some of the past ideas thrown around by myself and others. I pulled this 1/7/2016 post back up because it kind of started the new year for me.
Looking back, I still think I would do the Teheran & Inciarte for Soler, Baez and Eloy Jimenez trade. Inciarte has increased in value over the course of the season. Teheran probably has increased his value a bit but his value was likely higher at mid season and has fallen some with his somewhat diminished late season performance. Neither Soler nor Baez have progressed as well as I thought they would, but I think some of that can be attributed to the way they have been used. And Jimenez went from being outside the top 100 all the way up to 24 on the latest MLB list.
Of course, the proposed trade at 1/7 was before the Cubs resigned Fowler, so it may have never had a chance anyway.
Looking back, I still think I would do the Teheran & Inciarte for Soler, Baez and Eloy Jimenez trade. Inciarte has increased in value over the course of the season. Teheran probably has increased his value a bit but his value was likely higher at mid season and has fallen some with his somewhat diminished late season performance. Neither Soler nor Baez have progressed as well as I thought they would, but I think some of that can be attributed to the way they have been used. And Jimenez went from being outside the top 100 all the way up to 24 on the latest MLB list.
Of course, the proposed trade at 1/7 was before the Cubs resigned Fowler, so it may have never had a chance anyway.
I bet you $1 that if the Cubs hadn't had Fowler fall in their laps they would have traded for Inciarte. They were bluffing about moving Heyward to CF.
We will likely hear many Inciarte to the Cubs rumors this offseason. I want no part of Soler, but I think Baez is a solid target for the Braves. It would take a player of that caliber to justify trading Inciarte at what is likely his peak value.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I still think Soler can develop given playing time and I think Jimenez has the potential to be a future All Star RF. I agree on Baez although his low BB rate is concern.
Do you not think the Cubs would try to re-sign Fowler?
I certainly do, but just like all teams they are going to weigh his cost (in terms of cash and the draft pick his departure might net them) and production vs the cost/production of someone like Inciarte. We know the Cubs value defense as much or more than all other other teams, so they will likely value Inciarte as much or more than any other MLB club.
Baez is currently serving as a utility player for them, and they have Happ who could be ready to step into the same role much more cheaply. If the Cubs can convert their utility player into a 3-4 WAR CFer who is essentially under control for 4yrs/$20M vs resigning a much older Fowler for many times that amount of money, I think that's a swap they have to seriously consider. They also have Almora who could potentially serve as the RHed compliment in a semi-platoon with Inciarte.
If the Braves can convert their 3-4 WAR CFer into a 3-4 WAR long term solution at 3B, and turn CF over to a 2-3 WAR guy in Mallex Smith who is making league minimum, that is a move I think the Braves have to also strongly consider. For both teams it is a case of dealing (nearly) equal assets from a position of strength to address a position of weakness.
Additionally, I don't think Eloy is going anywhere. He is quite possibly the prospect in the game with the most helium (some say he will be #1 by this time next year). I would be shocked if the Cubs trade him for anyone outside of a truly premium guy like Sale or Quintana.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I agree on Eloy. Now. On 1/7/2016 he probably could have be acquired.
But I think that is why it's important to hit the prospects before they catch helium. It's more dangerous and it requires more patience by the acquiring club because the player wouldn't be "ML ready" but it's how you trade for future potential All Stars.