Suntrust Park Begins To Take Shape

Horsehide Harry said:
Not that it really makes any short term difference BUT Liberty can and does influence payroll. They may not set spending, relying on McGuirk and the Johns to do that. But they DO set the comp packages for McGuirk and the Johns. So they tell McGuirk "if you show an x dollar profit, your bonus is Y or if a loss then no Bonus, etc. Liberty ultimately doesn't care what the SG&A is so much as the EBITDA. If Liberty tells McGuirk that if he shows a $20M profit then he is in line for a $5M bonus on top of his $1M salary, that's a pretty big incentive to find a way to show that profit.
Click to expand...

evidence for your claim?
 
bravos4evr said:
evidence for your claim?
Click to expand...

There's no direct evidence but plenty of indirect evidence.

First, I know how large corporations generally pay their Senior Management and the above scenario is in line with that. Comp plans at that level are generally designed to drive bottom line performance. Comp plans aren't waved around for anyone to see for obvious reasons. I guess if you had a prospectus on Liberty and dug hard enough you might find what McGuirk's comp package is but in reality he's a pretty small fish in a pond as big as Liberty.

Second, if you notice when Liberty talks about it, they always say that they don't set the budget numbers for the team. The baseball people do that. What they don't say, but it's obvious, is that they DO set the comp plans. Do you think they would allow McGuirk to set his own? This is how they exercise asset control in an indirect way. No corporation is going to have an asset run on it's own with no control, no matter what they say publicly.

Third, the past actions of Braves senior management make sense if you view them in terms of the above.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
There's no direct evidence but plenty of indirect evidence.

First, I know how large corporations generally pay their Senior Management and the above scenario is in line with that. Comp plans at that level are generally designed to drive bottom line performance. Comp plans aren't waved around for anyone to see for obvious reasons. I guess if you had a prospectus on Liberty and dug hard enough you might find what McGuirk's comp package is but in reality he's a pretty small fish in a pond as big as Liberty.

Second, if you notice when Liberty talks about it, they always say that they don't set the budget numbers for the team. The baseball people do that. What they don't say, but it's obvious, is that they DO set the comp plans. Do you think they would allow McGuirk to set his own? This is how they exercise asset control in an indirect way. No corporation is going to have an asset run on it's own with no control, no matter what they say publicly.

Third, the past actions of Braves senior management make sense if you view them in terms of the above.
Click to expand...

Braves are operated independently, and now that stock can be bought for the team they have to open up their books. I doubt that the team is run in the manner you think they are. The best way to generate revenue is to win, choosing not to win to line your own pockets is a good way to get run out of town on a rail. McGuirk is considered on of the great execs in all of sports. No offense, but your claim sounds awfully tin foil hat to me.

the braves do run without their control. regardless of how you want to argue they don't. in fact LM had no interest in running the team at all and thus gave the power to JS and TM. They view the Braves like an investment, that's it. and like a mutual fund, sure they own it, but they can't get involved with it. Not if they don't want the team sold out from under them by MLB.
 
There isn't a single large corporation on the planet that doesn't tie executive pay to profits. I think it is logical to conclude the Braves operate like every other corporation on the planet.
 
bravos4evr said:
Braves are operated independently, and now that stock can be bought for the team they have to open up their books. I doubt that the team is run in the manner you think they are. The best way to generate revenue is to win, choosing not to win to line your own pockets is a good way to get run out of town on a rail. McGuirk is considered on of the great execs in all of sports. No offense, but your claim sounds awfully tin foil hat to me.

the braves do run without their control. regardless of how you want to argue they don't. in fact LM had no interest in running the team at all and thus gave the power to JS and TM. They view the Braves like an investment, that's it. and like a mutual fund, sure they own it, but they can't get involved with it. Not if they don't want the team sold out from under them by MLB.
Click to expand...

Erp.
 
bravos4evr said:
Braves are operated independently, and now that stock can be bought for the team they have to open up their books. I doubt that the team is run in the manner you think they are. The best way to generate revenue is to win, choosing not to win to line your own pockets is a good way to get run out of town on a rail. McGuirk is considered on of the great execs in all of sports. No offense, but your claim sounds awfully tin foil hat to me.

the braves do run without their control. regardless of how you want to argue they don't. in fact LM had no interest in running the team at all and thus gave the power to JS and TM. They view the Braves like an investment, that's it. and like a mutual fund, sure they own it, but they can't get involved with it. Not if they don't want the team sold out from under them by MLB.
Click to expand...

Absolutely disagree. Liberty has control over this asset. No way could they explain to their owners/investors "we have an asset out there that essentially does what it wants and we really exercise no control over it." They don't have to show OVERT control to actually HAVE control. That's why I think they have control based upon the comp plans tied to Braves top execs. They let the Braves operate as their own profit center and exercise indirect control through comp plans derived to keep the team above certain parameters. In effect it's self controlling.

To think that the Braves just run along without any oversight from their true ownership is just naïve. I know what they say in public. But that's for consumption by the public. When they took over ownership, they agreed to keep payroll at the level it currently was. And they have generally done that in terms of total dollars spent. But not in terms of value of dollars spent. $100M then is not the same as $100M today. So, in effect they have been cutting payroll commitment for years.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Absolutely disagree. Liberty has control over this asset. No way could they explain to their owners/investors "we have an asset out there that essentially does what it wants and we really exercise no control over it." They don't have to show OVERT control to actually HAVE control. That's why I think they have control based upon the comp plans tied to Braves top execs. They let the Braves operate as their own profit center and exercise indirect control through comp plans derived to keep the team above certain parameters. In effect it's self controlling.

To think that the Braves just run along without any oversight from their true ownership is just naïve. I know what they say in public. But that's for consumption by the public. When they took over ownership, they agreed to keep payroll at the level it currently was. And they have generally done that in terms of total dollars spent. But not in terms of value of dollars spent. $100M then is not the same as $100M today. So, in effect they have been cutting payroll commitment for years.
Click to expand...

lol, wtvr dude. I effing know what I am talking about and you are speculating. I have a friend who was directly involved with the deal and saw the paperwork in regards to the Braves' relationship with LM. The Braves run on revenue, as long as their budget proposal aligns with revenue they can do what they want.

as far as baseball executives go, I could find ZERO evidence online that Team Presidents, GM's or other executives receive comps based on money saved. EVERY SINGLE THING I found said they received salaries (and salaries lower than similar positions in other industries)

baseball is listed as tax exempt and exempt from anti-trust legislation, it seems to me that if they operated the way you think they do, they wouldn't qualify for either.
 
bravos4evr said:
outside of the metro area I'm sure. I still don't understand the gripe , the Lions are in Pontiac not Detroit, the Rays are in St Pete , not Tampa...etc
Click to expand...

I agree.

The SF 49ers are closer to San Jose. The NY Giants and Jets are in New Jersey. The Dolphins are not close to Miami. The "Los Angeles Angels" are way the hell out in Anaheim. The Royals aren't exactly downtown: 10-15 by highway. Fenway is 12 minutes from Boston according to Google Maps. Wrigley Field is 20 minutes from the loop. Suntrust Field is 15 to midtown. ....and it still has an Atlanta address! Want to whine about it being in Cobb? Would you whine if it was in Dekalb? Half of ITP is in Dekalb.

People are ridiculous and need to get over this suburb crap. I'd understand if the Braves were situated amongst the skyscrapers around Centennial Park, but they're out in the abandoned arm pit slums of the city. They're getting caught up in the BS politics of Atlanta politicians not being able to cash in on Turner Field and the surrounding parking lots.
 
as an out of town visitor, I am looking forward to having something to do near the park before and after games. and not being worried for my welfare walking to and from the stadium.
 
bravos4evr said:
as an out of town visitor, I am looking forward to having something to do near the park before and after games. and not being worried for my welfare walking to and from the stadium.
Click to expand...

As someone who lives 20 minutes from the stadium, I'm looking forward to the same things.
 
bravos4evr said:
outside of the metro area I'm sure. I still don't understand the gripe , the Lions are in Pontiac not Detroit, the Rays are in St Pete , not Tampa...etc
Click to expand...

I don't really care that they built a new stadium (though there was nothing wrong with Turner Field and the new location is buffoonish from a traffic standpoint, but it's not my money), but it makes me doubt the strictness of the other parts of that supposed agreement.
 
Metaphysicist said:
I don't really care that they built a new stadium (though there was nothing wrong with Turner Field and the new location is buffoonish from a traffic standpoint, but it's not my money), but it makes me doubt the strictness of the other parts of that supposed agreement.
Click to expand...

I am sure if they had tried to bend the city over and threatened to move to Medicine Hat or Charlotte or Portland the league would have stepped in. (or voted it down and taken a little closer look at the team's operations)
 
bravos4evr said:
I am sure if they had tried to bend the city over and threatened to move to Medicine Hat or Charlotte or Portland the league would have stepped in. (or voted it down and taken a little closer look at the team's operations)
Click to expand...

Whatever the league agreed to do, it could vote to undo. If, for example, Liberty were trying to leverage Atlanta by threatening to move the team to another city, I doubt that MLB (i.e. the owners) would jump in and wave that agreement. That isn't where their bread is buttered.
 
Julio3000 said:
Whatever the league agreed to do, it could vote to undo. If, for example, Liberty were trying to leverage Atlanta by threatening to move the team to another city, I doubt that MLB (i.e. the owners) would jump in and wave that agreement. That isn't where their bread is buttered.
Click to expand...

probably not, I reckon the agreement was more about the ownership not being allowed to pull a Colts and pick up stakes and bail
 
bravos4evr said:
probably not, I reckon the agreement was more about the ownership not being allowed to pull a Colts and pick up stakes and bail
Click to expand...

Yeah, I expect that's it. Nothing's gonna stand between a pro sports owner and his God-given right to extort a community for a publicly-funded facility.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top