The Atlanta Braves Are Very Bad, And Fredi Gonzalez Isn't Helping...

50PoundHead said:
But unless we move some guys, we're still stuck with Melvin, Jr., and his albatross of a salary. I don't think Wren was a total incompetent, but I don't think he was particularly competent either. He did a bunch of "now-for-later" trades and some bad signings and I think he had played out his string. His draft strategy seemed to concentrate on high floor over high ceiling and although his drafts did produce a fair number of big leaguers, most seem to fall into the fringe player category. There are some notable exceptions, but too many Terdoslavich's.
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Melvin? Bourn/Swisher. Jump ball. Or maybe not, since Mel was useful in SD last year.

I do understand your other points, but I would point out...we know he was under extraordinary budget constraints because of Liberty's self-imposed salary cap. I think that may have impacted the drafts because we were under the gun to pick guys with "high signability". Right? And there were some trades for now, but that's because....well, because we were trying to win now. One of the two uses for the farm.

He didn't do well when he had a pocket full of money. But know, he was always shopping second tier guys instead of first. By definition, there's a bigger chance of a bust. I thought he had some very bad luck, too, and won in spite of that.

I don't think he was Branch Rickey, but I think he was a good GM. Dave Dombrowski picked him up in Boston, what does that tell you?
 
Freddi needs to be sacked. The whole "well the team sucks" excuse is that. An excuse. We were in the playoffs and his incompetence cost us vs the Dodgers. We had collapses late in seasons where we were playoff bound. Get rid of him. I dont care who manages the rest of 2016
 
Fredi needs to be gone and should have been gone a long time ago. He's still here because of the current incompetent front office. A front office that needs to be held accountable for destroying the big league team and scapegoating anyone who didn't fit in their little club. I have no confidence in the people running this organization to fully develop the young talent in the minors we've acquired. I hope at least a couple of them are good enough on their own to eventually make a difference.

The problem with that is we have a faceless owner who made it clear this week that all we are is a stock to them to be able to trade.

Until we really and truly have a complete overhaul of this organization, this is what we will be.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Melvin? Bourn/Swisher. Jump ball. Or maybe not, since Mel was useful in SD last year.

I do understand your other points, but I would point out...we know he was under extraordinary budget constraints because of Liberty's self-imposed salary cap. I think that may have impacted the drafts because we were under the gun to pick guys with "high signability". Right? And there were some trades for now, but that's because....well, because we were trying to win now. One of the two uses for the farm.

He didn't do well when he had a pocket full of money. But know, he was always shopping second tier guys instead of first. By definition, there's a bigger chance of a bust. I thought he had some very bad luck, too, and won in spite of that.

I don't think he was Branch Rickey, but I think he was a good GM. Dave Dombrowski picked him up in Boston, what does that tell you?
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It tells me that he's a good second banana.
 
I've taken halfassed stabs at defending Fredi in the past—not really defending his body of work, but observing that a lot of his job goes on outside of our knowledge, and more generally agreeing with the folks who say that pretty much every rabid fanbase thinks their team's manager is the absolute worst in-game manager in baseball. I have never thought much of him, but wanted to be fair.

In my heart of hearts, though, I was done with the guy after the bullpen debacle in the playoffs. There has never been a subsequent time that I've really felt like the team would be poorly served by making a change. Right now, though, given the state of the product on the field, I don't really care if he gets it in the neck tomorrow or next winter. I'm pretty sure he won't be managing the team next year, and I'm pretty sure that will be a net positive for the team.
 
I am officially done defending Fredi. The casual brush-off of the stolen base tag play cost them a run and who knows how the game would have progressed with that momentum bump.

Go home, Fredi
 
After the collapse in 2014 I advocated Fredi and the entire coaching staff be replaced.

Still don't get all the misplaced adoration for McDowell. He's still the guy that wore his uniform backwards and after Tehrans latest melt down that image still dominates my opinion

During ST thought perhaps Seitzer was a keeper. Then the real games started.
Team can't pitch,field or hit and seems to make stupid fundamental decisions.
Or, no decisions

Looks like my prediction of an 84 win season just makes me an unapologetic homer
Guilty as charged
 
Fans always try to put all or most of the blame on one person..... like it has to be Fredi's fault, or Coppy's fault.......... the truth is obviously some bad luck+Fredi+Coppy=what we are seeing right now.

Fredi is bad, I don't know how you can argue that, we wouldn't be 7-2 with a great manager, but I bet we could be 2-7 - and that's a big difference. He's not the answer and I look forward to seeing him go. At the same time, Coppy and company messed this up, they certainly could have given Fredi a better bullpen and they potentially wasted two assets in Wood/Peraza that could have been used to give Fredi another bat in the lineup. On top of all of that -- who's fault is it that Teheran and Freeman (our two *stars) are brutal right now? I don't think you can put that on Coppy or Fredi.

Furthermore -- I really don't understand what everybody is so up in arms about.... we all knew we'd suck this year. Would people be happier if we were 3-6? I mean either way, this is a lost season, I'd rather lose all the time and get that #1 pick and a chance at a generational talent. When you're tanking; losing is winning. That being said, the big thing you DO WANT to see this year from the big squad is progress from the young guys (Wisler, Viz, Jace, Mallex, Inciarte) and normal production from Freeman/Tehrean - so in that aspect I get the frustration. But I'm pretty OK with whats happening right now, this is how a rebuild works.
 
Preacher said:
Furthermore -- I really don't understand what everybody is so up in arms about.... we all knew we'd suck this year. Would people be happier if we were 3-6?
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The answer I'm sure will vary by fan. Some want to take the logic of a rebuild to its ultimate conclusion, which is that you accelerate the rebuild by being bad enough the get the top pick.

For me, I accept and even welcome deals that trade present for future as long as we get what I consider to be a good return. However, we have to put out a team each year and within the constraint of our payroll that year I want the best team we can have. I'm not for deliberately setting out to be the worst team in the majors. I don't think the FO is either, which is why I think it is fair game to criticize them for not doing a good job taking into account the financial and other constraints that they have to face.
 
the title of this thread and article is the Braves are bad but Fredi is not helping... I don't think anyone is casting the entire blame on Fredi.. just he is not helping a bad team... he is making them worse. Honestly, I don't think McDowell or Kevin S. will survive this season. I think they replace all three sometime this year....
 
nsacpi said:
The answer I'm sure will vary by fan. Some want to take the logic of a rebuild to its ultimate conclusion, which is that you accelerate the rebuild by being bad enough the get the top pick.

For me, I accept and even welcome deals that trade present for future as long as we get what I consider to be a good return. However, we have to put out a team each year and within the constraint of our payroll that year I want the best team we can have. I'm not for deliberately setting out to be the worst team in the majors. I don't think the FO is either, which is why I think it is fair game to criticize them for not doing a good job taking into account the financial and other constraints that they have to face.
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Don't get me wrong, I think its fair to criticize the front office..... but at the same time everybody expected us to be bad.... and we're bad. To me, and I've been a fan for a long time, the wins and losses this season don't matter much, I just want to see the minors progress and some of the key pieces on the major league club to well.
 
On a lighter note, was amused the the accompanying photo of Coppy from the article.

coppolella1280_ehf5025c_s9v51250.jpg
 
Pretty good interview. Miniminal spinning and blaming the ancien regime. Stay the course is an acceptable rallying cry and I liked his point about not reacting out of panic.
 
My regard for the FO has been a game of Chutes and Ladders over the last 1.5 years, and one thing that's consistently bugged me is their communications. This was fine, though. Hopefully Coppy is improving.
 
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