The Coronavirus, not the beer
- Thread starter Runnin
- Start date
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I know someone who owns a funeral home. It is as this article says it is for people in the business.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/...rgue-bodies.html?referringSource=articleShare
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/...rgue-bodies.html?referringSource=articleShare
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
Does the governor have a valid, legal, and proportionate reason to tell you not to go to whatever place you are talking about, and does the constitution of the governor's state provide them with the powers to make that determination? Those are the relevant questions.
Tyranny is when rights are impinged for arbitrary or disproportionate reasons (i.e., there is no longer a rule of law), not just anytime they are impinged anytime whatsoever. Simple example:
Unconstitutional: You have the right to travel. No state can pass a law that says "People from NJ can't come here" for no reason.
Constitutional: States have a counterbalancing interest in public health and safety, so they are allowed to regulate how people travel. They may pass laws that make it illegal to travel while drunk or while driving recklessly or while unlicensed. This is 100% an impingement on your right to travel, but the impingement is confined to a proportionate response to a valid state interest.
The more fundamental the right, the more stringently we require the government to show how the restriction is reasonable and necessary.
You just think any rights infringement is tyranny because you are completely incapable of understanding anything outside of a binary. This is literally all you do here in every context: frame things as a binary and then complain about them with no nuance ("ARE TAXES THEFT? Y/N"). You have seemingly no concept that rights are constantly infringed all the time; the question is whether the infringement is justified (balancing test), not whether it happened (black/white understanding of a 5-year old).
If you wanna discuss whether the response is actually justified and proportionate, that's a real adult person conversation. But if you just wanna keep saying "muh rights" and jerking off into "a don't tread on me" flag, people aren't gonna take you seriously.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
sturg33
I
Is the governor saying I cant drive to my own private property a justifiable decision in the wake of covid?
If yes, why?
If not, how would you classify it?
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
Is there a specific order you are talking about? What property? Why are they saying you can't go there?
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
I think that's an edge case as to constitutionality for sure. The government clearly has a compelling interest in restricting travel during the outbreak and issue a shelter in place order. They are restricting travel that is deemed unnecessary. They are not restricting travel that is deemed necessary. I think it is debatable whether this is the narrowest possible means of achieving that interest, but the government's interest is clearly compelling. I would guess a court would look hard at what basis the gov has for thinking this will affect transmission.
It's a hard question, but it is definitely not "tyranny." This is how a society of laws functions.
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
To give you an example of constitutional overstep, I don't know that the CHP decision to stop permitting for all protests in the wake of that stupid person video zito posted is actually kosher. 1st amendment impingements typically receive extremely high levels of scrutiny and they must be very narrowly tailored to specific and compelling governmental interests. There is probably a less strict version of the CHP decision that could be taken. For example, it isn't clear why is it necessary to stop climate change protesters who maintain social distancing from getting permits.
I still don't think I would describe this as "tyranny" because words have meaning. This is basically an administrative decision, rule of law is not suspended, and this is reasonable dispute which will be worked out in the courts. That's how the rule of law works; people disagree about what exactly the law requires and allows, and the disputes get worked out. That ain't tyranny.
I still don't think I would describe this as "tyranny" because words have meaning. This is basically an administrative decision, rule of law is not suspended, and this is reasonable dispute which will be worked out in the courts. That's how the rule of law works; people disagree about what exactly the law requires and allows, and the disputes get worked out. That ain't tyranny.
Meta, since you’re a heavy poster on this thread I’m curious as to what you think the root cause of Covid 19 is? Do you believe it StArted with a Chinese person eating an animal like a bat or is there a chance it could had unintentionally leaked out of Wuhan Bio-Lab? Could one of the people at the lab that wAs responsible for the infected animal clean up sold the diseased animal for extra money not even thinking about it?
What’s your gut tell you?
What’s your gut tell you?
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
In my gut, I think the simplest explanation is it just jumped from animal to human (whether by eating or contact or whatever), since that's how all these viruses spring up.
Anything is possible I guess, so like maybe they were studying a bat virus and had terrible protocols (no evidence for this that I see), but all the stuff about the lab I've seen so far is complete speculation, fomented by people who have an interest in selling something. I haven't seen anything credible that would make me change my gut feeling that this works like every other virus ever, and the idea that it was engineered somehow seems especially dumb.
sturg33
I
I'm trying to understand how banning me from driving alone in my car from one property to another is useful in stopping the spread of thos virus. It makes no sense. It's nothing but a power grab.
Michigan will let me go to a Walmart but not my own home?
There is no defense to that other than a power grab
Runnin
Well-known member
There is an information war happening on this thread and as usual, you and sturg are like signposts pointing out the chaff.
Runnin
Well-known member
Just calm down and do what your govt tells you to do.
Have you always been subordinate and unruly?
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
They let you go to your home. But if you have a second home, they want you to pick one and stay there unless you have a reason to leave. Just like everyone else. They also say don't go to Wal-Mart unless you have a reason. Your framework is just wrong.
Like I said, I don't know that such an order holds up as narrowly tailored, but it isn't tyranny.
Runnin
Well-known member
The Trump "approach" is to change teams every other day, depending on who won the last game.
Runnin
Well-known member
Do most people in nursing homes vote?
So what's the death count for Blue vs Red? Has anyone done this count yet?
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Runnin
Well-known member
Did any reputable science people ever say this was a bioweapon?
sturg33
I
I dont understand how you can say the government telling me I cant go to my own property isn't tyranny.
What about arresting someone for paddle boarding alone?
What about arresting someone for going to park with their kid?
What about banning the sale of seeds in the wake of a global depression?
What about for quarantining citizens for going to a drive in church service?
All of these are justified? None of it is overreach? If you think this is hunky dory then we can we stop the discussion bc we're too far apart