The Coronavirus, not the beer

Runnin said:
From a friend's FB post:

My daughter and her fiancé are both ER doctors. He took hydroxychloroquine early on. She did not take it. She got over it very quickly with just a few days of cough and fever. He was hospitalized and also had a few more visits to the ER. He now takes Elliquis for the blood clots he developed in his lungs, which is a life-threatening condition.
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While I think the drug likely does not help Covid, it's also likely it had nothing to do with the different outcomes here. There are plenty of anecdotal stories of people taking it and getting better. Of course they'd have gotten better anyway.
 
cajunrevenge said:
I wonder what his opinion would be if mine was that he should be sexually assaulted and made into a slave. Would you still value my life? The political opinion that violence should be used on people who have not harmed anyone or are no threat to anyone is not innocent because its a personal belief. Do we need to respect the views of Nazis who think Jews need to be exterminated? Do we need to feel bad when Kim Jong-whatever dies because he is a person?



Jose Fernandez died of his own fault which does make it less tragic. I remember objecting to people trying to say he was a bad person because he did an illegal drug.


I understand the idea that wishing harm on people is bad. I dont wish things on people because I want them to pay for my healthcare. I dont wish bad things on people because I want something or I want them to do something. Those are political opinions. All I ask of people is to leave me the **** alone and let me do what I want with my own damn body in my own damn house. If your politial opinion is that a SWAT team should break in my house in the middle of the night and put me in a cage because I smoke a joint then you arent non-violent towards me. I dont care how many people get together and agree that I dont have the basic right to smoke a joint in my house. I dont ask anyones permission to live my life how I see fit and I never will. I am more than accepting that if I do harm to others I can lose my freedom. Thats fair. I believe in treating people how they treat me and if you or anyones political opinion is that violence should be used on me then I wish the same to them.
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I've never said you have to respect viewpoints. Awful beliefs should be opposed. I'm just against dehumanizing people because of their beliefs and thinking they deserve death or other bad things.

If there's a Nazi on the street corner yelling about evil Jews, he should be opposed. He doesn't deserve death because of his beliefs though.

There's a difference between those with terrible beliefs and those who commit terrible acts. There's a reason the law requires mens rea and actus reus for a crime (generally speaking). For someone to deserve punishment there must be criminal intent and a criminal act.

Fernandez is less sympathetic but his death is no less sad. His life was cut short and his family and friends left devastated. It's just as sad.

I agree with wanting to be left alone. I don't partake in marijuana myself but see no reason why I should be able to tell you that you can't in your own home. However I believe I should treat others how I expect to be treated. That means since I want to be left in peace with my beliefs I should leave others in peace with theirs.
 
striker42 said:
While I think the drug likely does not help Covid, it's also likely it had nothing to do with the different outcomes here. There are plenty of anecdotal stories of people taking it and getting better. Of course they'd have gotten better anyway.
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I think it all anecdotal, too. The only reason people are still talking about the drug is because the guy in the WH, who doesn't know beans about any of it, politicized it from the start. The CDC, who does know something and can speak intelligently about such issues, even when they're wrong, should've been doing the press conferences, to keep wild speculations at a minimum.

Orange One politicized HCQ the same way he politicized the lockdown, opening up the economy and returning to school. Any topic he touches become a toxic.
 
Runnin said:
I think it all anecdotal, too. The only reason people are still talking about the drug is because the guy in the WH, who doesn't know beans about any of it, politicized it from the start. The CDC, who does know something and can speak intelligently about such issues, even when they're wrong, should've been doing the press conferences, to keep wild speculations at a minimum.

Orange One politicized HCQ the same way he politicized the lockdown, opening up the economy and returning to school. Any topic he touches become a toxic.
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Politicization of Covid has been awful. You're seeing it play out in Georgia over mask mandates. I honestly think the last thing the fight between Kemp and Bottoms is about is public health. It's about a turf war, scoring political points, and in Kemp's case, not getting primaried.
 
sturg33 said:
Any Sweden updates?
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Sure

Denmark released their unemployment rate for June. It is now falling!

FINLAND's unemployment rate also fell in June.

Sweden's is still rising.

Of the Scandinavian countries, Sweden has the highest unemployment rate, the largest increase in unemployment rate since January, and of course a number of deaths that is a large multiple of the others.

Sweden has managed the nifty feat of having both an economic outcome and an epidemiological outcome much worse than their Scandinavian neighbors. Bravo!
 
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nsacpi said:
Sure

Denmark released their unemployment rate for June. It is now falling!

FINLAND's unemployment rate also fell in June.

Sweden's is still rising.

Of the Scandinavian countries, Sweden has the highest unemployment rate, the largest increase in unemployment rate since January, and of course a number of deaths that is a large multiple of the others.

Sweden has managed the nifty feat of having both an economic outcome and an epidemiological outcome much worse than their Scandinavian neighbors. Bravo!
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If corona is a sprint, Sweden has certainly loss. If it's a marathon, jury is still out. Spain, Japan, Australia, and others are finding out that lock downs and masks don't get rid of this virus.
 
msstate7 said:
If corona is a sprint, Sweden has certainly loss. If it's a marathon, jury is still out. Spain, Japan, Australia, and others are finding out that lock downs and masks don't get rid of this virus.
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Compared to FINLAND, Denmark and Norway, it is like they are down 40-7 at halftime. They aint pulling this one out.
 
Florida over 1,200 deaths the past 7 days.

And the people getting sick there are not skewing as young as they were a month ago.
 
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cajunrevenge said:
He played stupid games and won a stupid prize. I feel sorry for people are victims of trafic circumstances or other people, Hermain Cain was literally killed by his own willfully ignorance. If a guy in a burning building insists the building is not on fire and refuses to leave it's not a tragic circumstance. He asked for it and he got it.




But sure, I am the bad guy, not the people who use their power and influence to pass and defend morality laws that victimize innocent people. In the times of slavery he would be the guy saying Slaves are wrong for fighting back because the slave owners were not breaking the law.




On a side note I have never pointed a gun at anyone, tried to kill anyone, or signed up to kill foreigners in their homeland. You cant say that about John McCain. But he is a hero and I am a bad guy for wishing bad upon him. As if a government saying it's okay makes invading and killing people in their country whose only crime is having a different political philosophy a noble thing. The heroes we shouldnbe celebrating from Vietnam is Muhammed Ali. A guy who actually paid a price for refusing to murder people. The heroes are the ones who told the government to go **** themselves when told they were drafted to go murder people.
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This is dumb. Almost everyone contributes to their own death in some form or another. Heart disease is the number one cause of death in America, and it is largely preventable. Did these people "get what was coming to them" because they lived an unhealthy lifestyle? What about someone that forgot to buckle up and died in a car crash? Did they deserve to die? Was their death any less tragic than someone who dies from ALS or breast cancer?

Of course not. And it's absurd you would suggest otherwise

And yes you are a terrible person for wishing death on a war hero that refused to leave fellow POWs and someone that got tortured for months in the name of his country.
 
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Carp said:
This is dumb. Almost everyone contributes to their own death in some form or another. Heart disease is the number one cause of death in America, and it is largely preventable. Did these people "get what was coming to them" because they lived an unhealthy lifestyle? What about someone that forgot to buckle up and died in a car crash? Did they deserve to die? Was their death any less tragic than someone who dies from ALS or breast cancer?

Of course not. And it's absurd you would suggest otherwise.
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Cain's death has some similarities to the deaths of the folks who drank the kool-aid in Jonestown. All deaths are tragic, including those that are primarily self-inflicted.
 
msstate7 said:
If corona is a sprint, Sweden has certainly loss. If it's a marathon, jury is still out. Spain, Japan, Australia, and others are finding out that lock downs and masks don't get rid of this virus.
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And yet, those countries will likely end up with a far better outcome than Sweden when this is over. The best play was ALWAYS to limit the spread and find out more about the virus and the best ways to treat it and search for a vaccine. Japan and Australia will almost assuredly have a better death rates because they now have a better idea on how to treat the virus.
 
Some excess death data (March 15-July 19). July data likely to be revised.

NY City: excess mortality 27,100, covid deaths 22,900, gap 4,200

NY State (ex city): 14,200, 9,300, 4,900

NJ: 18,000, 15,700, 2,300

Florida: 8,500, 4,900, 3,600

Texas: 11,200, 4,000, 7,200

California: 12,100, 7,700 4,400

United States: 190,600 139,900 50,700
 
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Worth noting that Texas hospitalizations (graph below) rose to slightly over 10,000. In NY they peaked at almost 20,000, with a much steeper ascent, reflecting population density and high usage of public transportation.

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Carp said:
This is dumb. Almost everyone contributes to their own death in some form or another. Heart disease is the number one cause of death in America, and it is largely preventable. Did these people "get what was coming to them" because they lived an unhealthy lifestyle? What about someone that forgot to buckle up and died in a car crash? Did they deserve to die? Was their death any less tragic than someone who dies from ALS or breast cancer?

Of course not. And it's absurd you would suggest otherwise

And yes you are a terrible person for wishing death on a war hero that refused to leave fellow POWs and someone that got tortured for months in the name of his country.
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well this is just clearly a clash of morals. I cant fathom why you think its heroic to sign up to murder innocent people in their homeland. Damn right he deserved to be tortured. If a Vietnamese person came here trying to kill us he deserves the same damn thing. McCain's whole life he has tried to create a narrative around himself to appeal to people like you for political gain. I think by applying my moral standard it does not matter what time frame you were born in, you would never be a part of something abhorrent like slavery or Nazism. I think your morality is highly influenced by what you consider socially acceptable and therefore are highly susceptible to propaganda and indoctrination. Would you atleast agree that Muhammed Ali was a more moral person than John McCain for refusing to kill? Beyond that you tell me what gives John McCain the moral right to kill Vietnamese people in their home? Because the government said it was okay? Just following orders is not an acceptable excuse. The worst atrocities are always morally oblivious people carrying out orders. Governments need people like you. You are only a little propaganda away from being a guard at a concentration camp.
 
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