AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
That was his only mistake and since he had a gun, he thought he could get out and not worry, but unfortunately the worst scenario happened and now his life is screwed.
The Discussion That Should Be Going On
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That was his only mistake and since he had a gun, he thought he could get out and not worry, but unfortunately the worst scenario happened and now his life is screwed.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Pat Buchanan nails it and this is why I am what I am. The positive blacks that do not go to the race card like Martin, Rice, Watts, West, Powell et al, which are shunned by the black race who in turn loves Jesse Jackass, Al Sharpton and Ben Jealous. They went to school got to their positions through hard work. On the Scout Illinois board I had a fight with a Farrakhan member, he said through riots, protest and fight for reparations I am an uncle tom because I believe in the people above. Until we fix our own house, the racial divide will continue. You have those who want hand outs and you have those who want to work harder than the whites, like me, to prove we are just as smart and contribute just like you are and I have.
Of course I am still pissed I didn't get the job that would set me for life and it was not because I was black because I was not a dick, but I am going to still try again, see my topic in another forum.
Of course I am still pissed I didn't get the job that would set me for life and it was not because I was black because I was not a dick, but I am going to still try again, see my topic in another forum.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
I have become to respect you but this, oh my effing God, FBI wouldn't lie. I seen it in my own family. I seen it with my own eyes. The younger generation is causing us a lot of problems to the point we refuse to protect them. Several are already in jail to the point 18-30 year old group, 19 of them, 13 of them been in jail with 2 are. Take the 30 to 50 group where I belong, only 3. So don't give me that crap it went down and skew the numbers.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
You lost my respect. Sharpton is not bright, even my family would say that and they are DIE HARD CORE Democrats. They think he is a charlatan, con artist or hustler that bamboozle people like Arsenio Hall in Coming to America. They believe he and Jesse Jackson are tools to bring money to their campaigns and they REALLY hate that I was right about him.
They can only make money on racial divide, nothing more, nothing less.
Yogi44
Arizona Fall Leaguer
It has always befuddled the hell out of me, how a group of people can not see that the ONLY time these folks are seen is when it benefits THEM directly. If they really wanted to make a difference they would have long ago tried to run for office (I mean start down at the state level and work their way up) and at least TRY to make meaningful change.
It is sad that we have come to a point in our society when you go to work you have to be careful what you talk about. Anyone who disagreed with the verdict, would label me a racist by me commenting that there WAS reasonable doubt.
I have black friends, respect them and don't label them. But there was only one verdict, regardless of the testimony or evidence presented that would have pleased some of the black population. I still don't get why they do not get upset when a black kills a black? At least to the point of protesting??
One of the reasons I respect AA so much, is that he is willing to look at any situation as human vs. human, not color vs, color. Color never enters the picture.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Thanks, I mean that. I don't see color in my world, seriously.
Where are these numbers coming from exactly? This stat does not factor in that Black females outnumber black males in our population by a good bit. And females are far, far less likely to be involved in gangs. If you just look at he number of black teenage males involved in gangs, the number is actually quite high.
Want to guess how many imprisoned black males have some sort of relations to gangs?
57Brave
Well-known member
To Carp-- those numbers are not to argue or lay blame but a point of reference for conversation. Try to get past the blame and credit back and forth and see the problems and discuss the possible positive outcomes. We could argue back and forth a percentage point here or there and never really see the forest for the trees. Which to my mind, is the problem. Sure maybe 6% is a low number maybe it is 10% ???? That is still only 1 out of ten . What about the other 9????
Black Americans live a different reality than White Americans. That is a fact -- You and me can't go back and undo the cultural damage caused by slavery and misrepresented profiling only adds.
Black Americans live a different reality than White Americans. That is a fact -- You and me can't go back and undo the cultural damage caused by slavery and misrepresented profiling only adds.
57Brave
Well-known member
Why, Booker wonders, do we have our famous conversations about race only “when things go terribly wrong”?
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...559708-f0a1-11e2-bed3-b9b6fe264871_story.html
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...559708-f0a1-11e2-bed3-b9b6fe264871_story.html
57Brave
Well-known member
This article published and found today
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Armed and ready to stand our ground ...
July 22nd, 2013 | by Bob Gabordi | 0 Comments
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We had better learn to talk about these things.
In the last few days, I’ve heard from readers who had positive and negative reactions to my blog on the role of Florida law in Trayvon Martin’s death. One reader, a neighbor in Killearn Estates, and I went back and forth. He seemed angry that I had called the 17-year-old Martin a child.
He told me a story that alarmed me. He said he and his wife were walking in Killearn one morning when a car with two “what you would describe as ‘kids’ pulled into a driveway directly in front of us, blocking the sidewalk. I pushed her off the sidewalk into the shrubbery, placed right hand into jeans pocket prepared to draw my weapon, while continuing walking, keeping eye contact with the pair.”
He said he wasn’t looking for a fight and had no intention of harming anyone, but felt certain that Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law “would have supported any action I was forced to take.”
I recalled my trips to Pakistan when I found myself in situations that were uncomfortable. I had undergone security briefings about how to measure your surroundings and determine the degree of threat, and was told that everything is a potential threat. “Everything is fine,” we were told, “until it’s not.”
It occurred to me that people like this gentleman and his wife are walking around America feeling the same nervousness I had at first in Pakistan. I say at first because I soon learned to be comfortable in my surroundings, and was always treated with kindness and respect.
But here in America, in the same neighborhood that I have walked and run most of my nearly 400 miles this year, a man and woman go on morning walks packing a gun, the man knocking his wife into the bushes and ready to shoot a couple of kids who pulled into a driveway.
The people in the car – apparently overcome by a “twit of logic” decided to leave “immediately,” which my emailer described as “a good choice.”
My son is 18 and lives in our neighborhood. He was 17 at the time Trayvon Martin was shot. He has friends who come to visit. At that time of day, maybe it was a couple of his buddies who made a wrong turn and were turning around.
What if it was two of my ball players looking for my house, lost and needing directions? These guys have gotten lost going first to third, so nothing would surprise me.
People in cars stop me all the time and ask directions. Just the other day, a car pulled directly into my path while I was crossing Tullamore Lane at Killarney Way to ask me directions to the roundabout – which is just keep going straight.
In the case of my emailer, he had calculated the threat, which is a combination of your perception of good and evil multiplied by your fears, factoring in profiles of age, gender and race, among them, as well as – perhaps – tattoos and ring piercings, and knocked his lady into the shrubs and put his hand on a gun.
As we went back in forth, he expressed concerns about robberies in the neighborhood and other factors that had him concerned. These are real things that have to be taken into account.
He might have good reason to walk around scared – which he must be if he has resorted to walking around with a gun in his own neighborhood. In his mind, I’m sure he does.
But I have a teenage son and ball players who might look like a threat to this gentleman and, quite frankly, a scared man walking around Killearn with a gun ready to shoot at any perceived threat worries me more than these kids.
Trayvon Martin’s mother said she believes her son’s age was a bigger factor than his race in profiling him. Maybe, or maybe it was both. We’ll never really know.
The emails eventually ended with both of us grateful for the dialogue, perhaps except the part where he suggested I was a whiny liberal.
I did gain greater understanding of where he was coming from, but if truth be told, I also came away with an even greater concern for the divisions in our community, state and nation.
It is time we begin talking with serious purpose and stop shouting at each other. Maybe public forums are the answer, as long as they are not dominated by people on one side or the other and don’t devolve into pointless name calling and labeling.
I’m not really sure. But it is time we quit being afraid to talk about what scares us, even if it means discussing our taboo topics of race and age and why such things cause others to use them in profiling people as a danger.
You can send comments by clicking on my blogs on Tallahassee.com and Move.Tallahassee.com , e-mailing me at bgabordi@tallahassee.com or sending a private message on Facebook, Tallahassee.com or Twitter @bgabordi. My mailing address is Bob Gabordi, Executive Editor, Tallahassee Democrat, P.O. Box 990, Tallahassee, FL 32302. Call me at 850-599-2177.
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Armed and ready to stand our ground ...
July 22nd, 2013 | by Bob Gabordi | 0 Comments
Share
We had better learn to talk about these things.
In the last few days, I’ve heard from readers who had positive and negative reactions to my blog on the role of Florida law in Trayvon Martin’s death. One reader, a neighbor in Killearn Estates, and I went back and forth. He seemed angry that I had called the 17-year-old Martin a child.
He told me a story that alarmed me. He said he and his wife were walking in Killearn one morning when a car with two “what you would describe as ‘kids’ pulled into a driveway directly in front of us, blocking the sidewalk. I pushed her off the sidewalk into the shrubbery, placed right hand into jeans pocket prepared to draw my weapon, while continuing walking, keeping eye contact with the pair.”
He said he wasn’t looking for a fight and had no intention of harming anyone, but felt certain that Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law “would have supported any action I was forced to take.”
I recalled my trips to Pakistan when I found myself in situations that were uncomfortable. I had undergone security briefings about how to measure your surroundings and determine the degree of threat, and was told that everything is a potential threat. “Everything is fine,” we were told, “until it’s not.”
It occurred to me that people like this gentleman and his wife are walking around America feeling the same nervousness I had at first in Pakistan. I say at first because I soon learned to be comfortable in my surroundings, and was always treated with kindness and respect.
But here in America, in the same neighborhood that I have walked and run most of my nearly 400 miles this year, a man and woman go on morning walks packing a gun, the man knocking his wife into the bushes and ready to shoot a couple of kids who pulled into a driveway.
The people in the car – apparently overcome by a “twit of logic” decided to leave “immediately,” which my emailer described as “a good choice.”
My son is 18 and lives in our neighborhood. He was 17 at the time Trayvon Martin was shot. He has friends who come to visit. At that time of day, maybe it was a couple of his buddies who made a wrong turn and were turning around.
What if it was two of my ball players looking for my house, lost and needing directions? These guys have gotten lost going first to third, so nothing would surprise me.
People in cars stop me all the time and ask directions. Just the other day, a car pulled directly into my path while I was crossing Tullamore Lane at Killarney Way to ask me directions to the roundabout – which is just keep going straight.
In the case of my emailer, he had calculated the threat, which is a combination of your perception of good and evil multiplied by your fears, factoring in profiles of age, gender and race, among them, as well as – perhaps – tattoos and ring piercings, and knocked his lady into the shrubs and put his hand on a gun.
As we went back in forth, he expressed concerns about robberies in the neighborhood and other factors that had him concerned. These are real things that have to be taken into account.
He might have good reason to walk around scared – which he must be if he has resorted to walking around with a gun in his own neighborhood. In his mind, I’m sure he does.
But I have a teenage son and ball players who might look like a threat to this gentleman and, quite frankly, a scared man walking around Killearn with a gun ready to shoot at any perceived threat worries me more than these kids.
Trayvon Martin’s mother said she believes her son’s age was a bigger factor than his race in profiling him. Maybe, or maybe it was both. We’ll never really know.
The emails eventually ended with both of us grateful for the dialogue, perhaps except the part where he suggested I was a whiny liberal.
I did gain greater understanding of where he was coming from, but if truth be told, I also came away with an even greater concern for the divisions in our community, state and nation.
It is time we begin talking with serious purpose and stop shouting at each other. Maybe public forums are the answer, as long as they are not dominated by people on one side or the other and don’t devolve into pointless name calling and labeling.
I’m not really sure. But it is time we quit being afraid to talk about what scares us, even if it means discussing our taboo topics of race and age and why such things cause others to use them in profiling people as a danger.
You can send comments by clicking on my blogs on Tallahassee.com and Move.Tallahassee.com , e-mailing me at bgabordi@tallahassee.com or sending a private message on Facebook, Tallahassee.com or Twitter @bgabordi. My mailing address is Bob Gabordi, Executive Editor, Tallahassee Democrat, P.O. Box 990, Tallahassee, FL 32302. Call me at 850-599-2177.
Tapate50
Well-known member
I see that man refusing to be a victim just like the rest of America. Wanna know why he is on high alert? Because of the news and incidents happening every single day where crimes are committed on innocent bystanders. It happens all the time and you would be a poor husband\father if you let it happen to your family.
From 57
To Carp-- those numbers are not to argue or lay blame but a point of reference for conversation. Try to get past the blame and credit back and forth and see the problems and discuss the possible positive outcomes. We could argue back and forth a percentage point here or there and never really see the forest for the trees. Which to my mind, is the problem. Sure maybe 6% is a low number maybe it is 10% ???? That is still only 1 out of ten . What about the other 9????
Black Americans live a different reality than White Americans. That is a fact -- You and me can't go back and undo the cultural damage caused by slavery and misrepresented profiling only adds.
So slavery causes the family model to disintergrate in the black community? Slavery drives the crime rate in black neighborhoods up? Cmon man. It all boils down to getting your house in order. Accountability. When does the finger stop getting pointed toward someone else?
From 57
To Carp-- those numbers are not to argue or lay blame but a point of reference for conversation. Try to get past the blame and credit back and forth and see the problems and discuss the possible positive outcomes. We could argue back and forth a percentage point here or there and never really see the forest for the trees. Which to my mind, is the problem. Sure maybe 6% is a low number maybe it is 10% ???? That is still only 1 out of ten . What about the other 9????
Black Americans live a different reality than White Americans. That is a fact -- You and me can't go back and undo the cultural damage caused by slavery and misrepresented profiling only adds.
So slavery causes the family model to disintergrate in the black community? Slavery drives the crime rate in black neighborhoods up? Cmon man. It all boils down to getting your house in order. Accountability. When does the finger stop getting pointed toward someone else?
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
That's our problem and most of my race are following the wrong people. Those people, Sharpton and Jackson, needs it to stay this way.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Well, slavery followed by a century of institutionalized discrimination, followed by decades of widespread racism and bias. That doesn't obviate personal responsibility, but you can't just wave it away, either.
Tapate50
Well-known member
No, but what can anyone in the present do except move forward? Most of the people committing crimes and perpetualizing the numbers weren't around in those days. None of the history is going to change, its history. We can't do anything about that now, and its a shame but it is what it is.
In my humble opinion, pull up your bootstraps and lets get to work improving as a whole would be the best way I see.
57Brave
Well-known member
Good idea, but how do you go forward? You cant erase the family memories where aunts uncle and grandparents were still hung in the south.
Emmit Till is still an issue.
Like the President said, there has been progress but this case-- shoot this thread -- proves there is still a deep rooted prejudice and a stigma of systemic racism.
So tapate50, how do we go about making white people stop becoming automatically scared when seeing a huge black male on the street ?
Progress --- white woman & black male. At my age I still turn to look. My son (mid 30's) -- doesn't even notice
So, we are getting somewhere
Emmit Till is still an issue.
Like the President said, there has been progress but this case-- shoot this thread -- proves there is still a deep rooted prejudice and a stigma of systemic racism.
So tapate50, how do we go about making white people stop becoming automatically scared when seeing a huge black male on the street ?
Progress --- white woman & black male. At my age I still turn to look. My son (mid 30's) -- doesn't even notice
So, we are getting somewhere
Tapate50
Well-known member
Ill address one at a time.
I live in an area that is predominantly AA. There is a county where cold blooded killings still happened on the side of the road in the name of race 40+ years ago in broad daylight. That area is still one of the poorest areas of the US. No one there has bettered themselves in the past 40 years as a majority since then. Most still live in the same family house with a high crime rate and broken family structure. But like I said, not a whole lot we can do about those times now. Most people we are alluding to in this conversation were too young to remember that. Some still have those memories, but most are gone. Like I said, history is history. It ain't changing.
The BLACK President alluded to some guy eyeballing him as a kid, and to be honest that sounded like a great scripted story to tell. He looked like an activist, not a thug at a young age. If you know a bit about politics, that was a speech written for him and just OK'd by the man. Obama isn't writing a thing these days and I doubt very highly that he had a hand in any of the content of that speech.
I would love for you to point out the racism in this thread. Most racist are the first to cry " racist " first in my experience. Your post does little to change this feeling. Most people can't take the criticism and straight talk about whats going on in the black community, so they slough it off as "that ol biggot white boy" instead of opening their mind to the fact that maybe, just MAYBE it has some sliver of merit.
As for your last point of how do we get joe white to not be scared of bo black? Stop the violence. Stop the thuggery. Stop the crime (that includes B on B as much as it does B on W). Stop making idols of criminals and hailing them as successes just because they made some money in the music business. It all starts with being accountable. There is a intrinsic difference in the black communities and white communities here. If bo black had committed a crime, it would be someone elses fault and not condemned by most of his peers. If Joe white commits a crime, the community of his peers pretty much condemns the act and the person going forward publicly and privately. That is a fundamental disconnect that doesn't keep kids\adults "in line" with a succcessful society.
57Brave
Well-known member
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I think the phrase used was "stigma of systemic racism."
Let's distinguish between racial prejudice / bigotry and racism.
I'd be willing to bet there are millions & millions of black men (old and young) that nod their heads in agreement and relate to what the "Black" President said. Reports are the talk was given without script and after days of talking out his remarks with aides. My guess is Thomas Sowell or Bill Cosby could have given the same talk. Maybe even Clarence Thomas. (or AA?)
I look over rural America and search high and lo for these gangs of black thugs that run our meth mills. Or the inner city gangs that rival the Mexican,Dominican,Cuban, Russian,***ish or Italian mobs of the cities. No, we do not see Andrew Cuomo or Marco Rubio referred to as "other" or a prominent "news" networks demanding their birth certificates
Tapate50
Well-known member
It did take Obama a while to speak on the issue, so maybe he had a hand in it. It was just vague enough to come across as scripted. There is no way to know for sure.
No one is demanding birth certificates from those men because they aren't the President. Not realizing the difference is justing being obtuse. Think Jesse and Al wouldn't act the same way? Because they did. Al was crowing about W's military record getting made public for over a year. That card gets played every year in elections. Cmon man, Mitt had to lay his tax returns out for the world to see. Comparing something the extreme right did (and quoting it as the norm) is just as asanine as quoting Jesse and Al. We would go round n round for days of the stupidity. The norm lies somewhere in the middle.
You have been looking high and lo for these black gangs ? You haven't been looking hard at all. Like I said, I live very close to much of this and see it every day. We have as many as 6-8 gangs operating in our small city at one time. Over 50% of those are black with the rest being Latino. Your few lines on this suggest you aren't familiar with any of this on a personal level. I have no idea, and I don't pretend to know you or your situation.
As far as the distinction between racial prejudice \ bigotry and racism, you got me there. I don't care. I want our world fixed, and whatever color decideds to pick it up and take the horse by the reigns is fine by me. All I want is a better place for my children and their children. Right now I can't say that is the case, at least not with a straight face. I see a total abcence of accountability from a lot of groups, and that is what troubles me.