The Don

AerchAngel said:
I thought Clinton would slaughter him.

I was wrong.

How can a polished politician lose to someone like that? I might rethink my vote for Clinton after most major sources said she was not decisive winner.

If you can't beat a nonpolitician and you made it your career, there is something majorly wrong with you. We are not even talking about all the felon charges that should have been brung.
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haha

good attempt at trolling
 
Upon further review and watching the debate again (in it's entirety... lol), I'd say at the very worst Trump tied into a stalemate if not narrowly won.

You don't look at this debate as two people evenly matched from the onset, you look at it as someone with a strong political advantage (Clinton) against someone who people recognize isn't going to talk like a seasoned politician. If Kobe and LeBron played 1 on 1 right now, Kobe is probably too old and slow to beat him, but it's a moral victory if he can score on him a few times if not keep the score close. That's the same thing in this instance. Hillary may have won the debate "overall", but she lost the debate in the sense she had multiple opportunities to close Donald out and didn't. We've said time and time again Donald is going to self destruct but he's continually self destructed to the GOP nomination and onto the debate stage against her. It's probably time to reassess his formula and really consider what he's doing is something we don't give him enough political credit for.

Trump had a handicap heading into this, all he needed to do was look barely formidable to be successful.

Clinton needed to blow Trump out of the water and I felt she stumbled on some answers.

Trump didn't get into a dead heat in polls without two factors: Clinton having no energy in her campaign, and Trump getting not-Clinton and can't be worse than status quo voters.

I think we underestimate just how much Trump's loudmouthy "confidence" whether his claims are substantive or lies, appeal to average joes.

Hillary just sounds like a politician when she talks. We know there's people out there voting for Trump because of his business experience, as well as him being a political "outsider". I think most of us here know Obama is a better speech giver than debater, as his charisma in debates vs. McCain and Romney did not work as well or seep through. Hillary not only just sounds overly scripted, but you can notice she feels absolutely uncomfortable answering any questions on her emails which furthers suspicions into people's heads. Again, I'm not here to argue whether her emails are important or not, I'm just saying whether it was Bernie giving her that alley oop, talking to it to the media, or in the debate against Trump she just gives off this really uncomfortable body language when it comes to answering any questions pertaining her emails. I think Trump's one liner of I'll release my tax returns when she releases her emails, was a very strong one to appeal to the average person who doesn't really know the real information on that issue.

I'm afraid this race is far from over, and I don't even think Trump has hit Hillary as hard as he could. He's gotten to the top being negative negative negative and throwing rationality out of the window from the top of Trump Tower. Don't even think he's thrown the kitchen sink at her yet. And Hillary has certainly mastered blowing leads. Lead Obama and lost. Lead Bernie and barely won (we'll never truly know to extent of how bad the DNC collusion really effected Bernie's campaign), and lead Trump by a lot and is now in a virtual tie.

There was an interesting thing Chris Matthews brought up during the primary season, and that is Hillary has a hard time "expanding" her base. If you look at all her political races throughout her career, she starts out at a certain number in early polls and doesn't go higher, only stays the same or drops lower. People will vote for her, but she has a hard time getting people to step over the line to vote for her. That's something Trump has had no issue, as I've met longtime Democrats who are jumping across the isle to go to Donald. I mean he flipped several thousand Democrats in Pennsylvania alone. I view my dad as someone like the average joe. Blue collar, union guy 30+ years, always voted blue. He watches the "news" everyday so he feels he's educated and informed enough about these things, but doesn't know more than he thinks. He's the exact type of guy that Trump appeals to. My dad loved Bill Clinton, and voted for Hillary in the Primary against Obama. Now he's going Donald. If you don't think there's several people out there similar to my dad that aren't going to vote for Trump, I feel you've truly underestimated whatever movement he's created.
 
Thank you Sav, this is exactly what I am seeing or could said, but you do it more elegantly than me.

I am sorry if I don't have the long narrations I use to post, Scout boards are very hard to control with the amount of traffic I have to endure.

So who is trolling now Goldie?
 
I am definitely not voting for Trump and I can't really pull the lever for Hillary even though I rather have her in than him. If I pull a vote for a felon, a cheat, a crook, the establishment, it is like me voting for all the wrong reasons at a lesser level. I just can't do it.

It doesn't matter how many memes or links about Trump or about Hillary, my mind has already been made up and that goes for a lot of Independents. We don't like our choices, but it boils down to what your conscious wants. In most cases, neither.
 
Forever Fredi said:
Upon further review and watching the debate again (in it's entirety... lol), I'd say at the very worst Trump tied into a stalemate if not narrowly won.

You don't look at this debate as two people evenly matched from the onset, you look at it as someone with a strong political advantage (Clinton) against someone who people recognize isn't going to talk like a seasoned politician. If Kobe and LeBron played 1 on 1 right now, Kobe is probably too old and slow to beat him, but it's a moral victory if he can score on him a few times if not keep the score close. That's the same thing in this instance. Hillary may have won the debate "overall", but she lost the debate in the sense she had multiple opportunities to close Donald out and didn't. We've said time and time again Donald is going to self destruct but he's continually self destructed to the GOP nomination and onto the debate stage against her. It's probably time to reassess his formula and really consider what he's doing is something we don't give him enough political credit for.

Trump had a handicap heading into this, all he needed to do was look barely formidable to be successful.

Clinton needed to blow Trump out of the water and I felt she stumbled on some answers.

Trump didn't get into a dead heat in polls without two factors: Clinton having no energy in her campaign, and Trump getting not-Clinton and can't be worse than status quo voters.

I think we underestimate just how much Trump's loudmouthy "confidence" whether his claims are substantive or lies, appeal to average joes.

Hillary just sounds like a politician when she talks. We know there's people out there voting for Trump because of his business experience, as well as him being a political "outsider". I think most of us here know Obama is a better speech giver than debater, as his charisma in debates vs. McCain and Romney did not work as well or seep through. Hillary not only just sounds overly scripted, but you can notice she feels absolutely uncomfortable answering any questions on her emails which furthers suspicions into people's heads. Again, I'm not here to argue whether her emails are important or not, I'm just saying whether it was Bernie giving her that alley oop, talking to it to the media, or in the debate against Trump she just gives off this really uncomfortable body language when it comes to answering any questions pertaining her emails. I think Trump's one liner of I'll release my tax returns when she releases her emails, was a very strong one to appeal to the average person who doesn't really know the real information on that issue.

I'm afraid this race is far from over, and I don't even think Trump has hit Hillary as hard as he could. He's gotten to the top being negative negative negative and throwing rationality out of the window from the top of Trump Tower. Don't even think he's thrown the kitchen sink at her yet. And Hillary has certainly mastered blowing leads. Lead Obama and lost. Lead Bernie and barely won (we'll never truly know to extent of how bad the DNC collusion really effected Bernie's campaign), and lead Trump by a lot and is now in a virtual tie.

There was an interesting thing Chris Matthews brought up during the primary season, and that is Hillary has a hard time "expanding" her base. If you look at all her political races throughout her career, she starts out at a certain number in early polls and doesn't go higher, only stays the same or drops lower. People will vote for her, but she has a hard time getting people to step over the line to vote for her. That's something Trump has had no issue, as I've met longtime Democrats who are jumping across the isle to go to Donald. I mean he flipped several thousand Democrats in Pennsylvania alone. I view my dad as someone like the average joe. Blue collar, union guy 30+ years, always voted blue. He watches the "news" everyday so he feels he's educated and informed enough about these things, but doesn't know more than he thinks. He's the exact type of guy that Trump appeals to. My dad loved Bill Clinton, and voted for Hillary in the Primary against Obama. Now he's going Donald. If you don't think there's several people out there similar to my dad that aren't going to vote for Trump, I feel you've truly underestimated whatever movement he's created.
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every time there's a major political event, he loses ground. there was a long time between the dem. convention and this first debate, and he gained some ground in the polls. as soon as he spoke at the debate, his chances went down. he was a mess, but doesn't even admit/know it. so i'm hoping his supporters keep telling him he did great, so he goes out and does the same thing again. because undecideds and independents don't seem to be buying him once he reminds them what kind of man he is.

he had opportunities for good rebuttals, but is too thin-skinned and childish. he can't be slighted in the least without going off on a tangent.

i loved when he complained that hillary's ads are "mean." first because he's supposed to be this big, strong, intimidating man, but he's whining about her being mean. but the second and best part is, the ads are just of him talking. it's his own words and he sounds like a ridiculous piece of ****. how is using your own words against you mean? idk, macho man.
 
i cannot fathom how anyone could watch that debate and think trump did well. and pretty much no polls except the online twitter polls declared him the winner. and post-debate polls aren't looking good for him either. but goddamn he was terrible. he bragged about not paying federal tax. admitted to stiffing small businesses. said "wrong" over and over when the statements being made were correct. looked like a complete moron over the Obama birther issue. advocated blowing up a ship because some sailors were made fun of.

and it's interesting he's been bringing up bill's infidelity since the debate. trump is a proud adulterer and has bragged about sleeping with married women multiple times. his lack of self-awareness is astounding.
 
LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP 33m33 minutes ago

My temperament is tremendous, said the 70-year old man who told America to watch a sex tape that doesn't exist at 430 AM on a Friday morning



Hunter Schwarz ‏@hunterschwarz 36m36 minutes ago

How Trump responded to Clinton bringing up Miss Universe:

-immediately: brought up Rosie O’Donnell

-4 days later: asked us to watch porn

 
57Brave said:
LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP 33m33 minutes ago

My temperament is tremendous, said the 70-year old man who told America to watch a sex tape that doesn't exist at 430 AM on a Friday morning


Hunter Schwarz ‏@hunterschwarz 36m36 minutes ago

How Trump responded to Clinton bringing up Miss Universe:
-immediately: brought up Rosie O’Donnell
-4 days later: asked us to watch porn
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Conway was on the air saying that trump making fun of her was a long time ago at the same time trump was again saying she gained a lot of weight.

he took credit for NATO fighting terrorism more intensely. he took credit for Obama's birth certificate and refused to admit he was wrong in any way, shape, or form. he's never admitted he was wrong about anything, ever. it's crazy. him being on a debate stage is an insult to America.
 
yeezus said:
i cannot fathom how anyone could watch that debate and think trump did well. and pretty much no polls except the online twitter polls declared him the winner. and post-debate polls aren't looking good for him either. but goddamn he was terrible. he bragged about not paying federal tax. admitted to stiffing small businesses. said "wrong" over and over when the statements being made were correct. looked like a complete moron over the Obama birther issue. advocated blowing up a ship because some sailors were made fun of.

and it's interesting he's been bringing up bill's infidelity since the debate. trump is a proud adulterer and has bragged about sleeping with married women multiple times. his lack of self-awareness is astounding.
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I didn't watch the debate, so I can't comment on that, but I think you're right on the post-debate reaction. I think they polled a couple of bars in New Jersey where Trump did well, but overall his debate performance appears to have hurt him. It is always difficult to tell. Trump is very unorthodox and what he seems to be trying now is to make the debate just another example of how the system is rigged against him.

Trump's real problem now is that while he may have a briefcase of crap to throw at Clinton, she has a steamer trunk of stuff to throw back. Hillary has been hounded and dragged from pillar to post throughout her public life and while I'm sure that hasn't been a whole lot of fun for her, there's no doubt that she's been vetted. Now I suppose AA can come in and claim that the only reason they haven't found anything fatal to her career is that either everyone has been bought off (which would be impossible if the charges were that bad) or that the Clintons have a army of ex-Mossad agents ready to eliminate any loose ends. But that doesn't hold up. If Trump had any ability to be circumspect, he could easily recover from a poor debate performance, but there's no doubt his road got a little steeper.

Sav, I hear what you're saying, but it sounds like your father was in Trump's camp from the get-go, as are a lot of blue-collar folks. The post-recession has not been good to them and they feel they aren't being heard. I get that they like Trump because he's anti-establishment, but at the same time, I cannot understanding their political calculus in thinking he'll do anything to truly help them. Here's a guy who got rich of ripping off taxpayers, declaring bankruptcy after he'd harvested the worth out of an enterprise, and fleecing his sub-contracters.
 
Sam Stein ‏@samsteinhp 2h2 hours ago

sometimes you have to step back:

A candidate 39 days from the election is tweeting abt a sex tape in the midst of Shimon Peres' funeral


......

2 things amaze me
1) no (R) stood up to him. Watching HRC, it really wasn't that hard

2) (R) Congressional leadership is endorsing him. Which tells me, this wasn't any kind of accident and it is what (R) is.

What is that old sport axiom ? You are what your record says you are
 
50PoundHead said:
Sav, I hear what you're saying, but it sounds like your father was in Trump's camp from the get-go, as are a lot of blue-collar folks. The post-recession has not been good to them and they feel they aren't being heard. I get that they like Trump because he's anti-establishment, but at the same time, I cannot understanding their political calculus in thinking he'll do anything to truly help them. Here's a guy who got rich of ripping off taxpayers, declaring bankruptcy after he'd harvested the worth out of an enterprise, and fleecing his sub-contracters.
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he's made his money ripping off the little guy but once he's president he'll fight for the little guy! i just know it!
 
57Brave said:
Sam Stein ‏@samsteinhp 2h2 hours ago

sometimes you have to step back:

A candidate 39 days from the election is tweeting abt a sex tape in the midst of Shimon Peres' funeral


......

2 things amaze me
1) no (R) stood up to him. Watching HRC, it really wasn't that hard

2) (R) Congressional leadership is endorsing him. Which tells me, this wasn't any kind of accident and it is what (R) is.

What is that old sport axiom ? You are what your record says you are
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donald trump doesn't know who Shimon Peres is.
 
yeezus said:
donald trump doesn't know who Shimon Peres is.
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" no Donnie, that is Gary Johnson "
- Walter Sobchak

....

Matthew Yglesias Verified account
‏@mattyglesias

Sex tape aside, Trump has not so much as bothered to deny that he referred to Machado as "Miss Housekeeping."
 
I don't give two schits about either.

As soon as you cover up evidence (deleting emails and asking people how to cover your trail) being an IT person, it is obstruction and you do plead the 5th in doing so.

Any other email that is not detriment can be covered up by the AG (obvious) and then FBI to look the other way.

She come clean, she has my vote. Until then, nope, nada. I rather have a person who is genuine and honest and ask for forgiveness instead of taking us all for suckers, which Donald has already and why I won't vote for him. He is incompetent.
 
50PoundHead said:
Trump's real problem now is that while he may have a briefcase of crap to throw at Clinton, she has a steamer trunk of stuff to throw back. Hillary has been hounded and dragged from pillar to post throughout her public life and while I'm sure that hasn't been a whole lot of fun for her, there's no doubt that she's been vetted.
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Yes, and anything coming out of Trump's mouth now is tainted and sounds like all the BS that's come before it. It's a wonder anyone is still listening at all, but I guess we sorta have to.
 
She has the media on her side as well. Look how hard they're pushing this stupid Miss America thing. There's no real news there. Everyone already knows Trump is a misogynist. And it's not even the worst thing he's said about women. But they are pushing it real hard. It's also true that Trump is too much of a vain dolt to move on from it.

It's also somewhat irrelevant to the Presidency. Of all the issues Trump brings as a candidate, the idea that we could never have a misogynist as president is absurd. Some famous democrat presidents were worse misogynist's than Trump. I personally think this is a planned line of attack by the Hillary campaign and the media to go after Trump. And Trump is Trump so it's working.
 
weso1 said:
She has the media on her side as well. Look how hard they're pushing this stupid Miss America thing. There's no real news there. Everyone already knows Trump is a misogynist. And it's not even the worst thing he's said about women. But they are pushing it real hard. It's also true that Trump is too much of a vain dolt to move on from it.

It's also somewhat irrelevant to the Presidency. Of all the issues Trump brings as a candidate, the idea that we could never have a misogynist as president is absurd. Some famous democrat presidents were worse misogynist's than Trump. I personally think this is a planned line of attack by the Hillary campaign and the media to go after Trump. And Trump is Trump so it's working.
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I don't disagree with you, but this is where we are as a culture. I think Trump's policies--if he truly has any--would likely be disastrous, but the deluge on irrelevancies coming through the media could actually help him with the "rigged" angle.
 
I disagree 50. I see the race now as Clinton not losing what constituency she has of of women, Latino, college educated suburban. Every new story that comes out solidifies those votes. And I don't see how Trump expands his ... the "rigged" arguement is his 35-40% base that won't vote for Clinton if she promised them "free stuff" and a pony
The (D) debate plan was energize her base . In that vein ...

The Miss Universe controversy though it seems meaningless to us white men it does ring with women and Latino's. Even more important than the fact he called her fat then explained it away by invoking Rosie O'Donnel ,yelling "wrong" then later pointing out she has a life is the phrase "housekeeper" .
Want to insult a Latino? Assume that person is the "help" or insensitively refer to them as the gardener or the maid. Wwithout acknowledging their humanity
How many votes did Clinton keep on the ranch by asking if Trump knew her name ? That might be one of the slickest debate move I've ever seen. She held it until the end when he was tired to assure he would overreact
Trump apparently agrees - because he's been doing his lame attempt at damage control ever since.

We are at about the bottom of the 7th in this election where Clinton is up 7-3. Her trick is to not lose. She isn't getting any of his supporters - she isn't going to convince them,
and I don't think she is interested in the Johnson/Stein voters either. She has a lead to play with and 3 guys that throw 95-100 in the bullpen.
And that is before she gets to her closer.

About what he has on her. If he had something other than she stayed with Bill - rest assured this premature ejaculator couldn't hold back.
 
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