The Trump Presidency

thethe said:
I think a good portion of crime would phase out but I think we are fooling ourselves in thinking this will be a magic touch that eliminates all.

We need to reach the youth in these areas and provide them with another path. The only way to do that is with economic opportunity.
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So a good portion of crime would go away and you don't support taking those actions?
 
sturg33 said:
So a good portion of crime would go away and you don't support taking those actions?
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I've always been a supporter of marijuana legalization.

Kg's point is valid though in that a comparison to colorado is irrelevant.
 
thethe said:
I think a good portion of crime would phase out but I think we are fooling ourselves in thinking this will be a magic touch that eliminates all.

We need to reach the youth in these areas and provide them with another path. The only way to do that is with economic opportunity.
Click to expand...

We have those programs today and they don't work. Whether or drugs are legal or not, the inner cities are still a cluster****. The more prevalent and accessible hard drugs are will actually lead to more crime. How will the newly addicted people be able to support thier drug habits after they lose thier jobs?
 
thethe said:
I've always been a supporter of marijuana legalization.

Kg's point is valid though in that a comparison to colorado is irrelevant.
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Considering that the majority of our prison population is drug users.. i'd say im very comfortable eliminating that "crime."

kgs questions are irrelevant. The exact same argument can be made for alcohol.
 
Krgrecw said:
I'm not talking about Colorado which has never been in the news for crime problems. I'm talking about the inner cities where 90% of the crimes we hear about happen. You think street dealers, gangs and the addicts who rob people (all because of drugs) are going to clean up thier acts? It's all they know. It's what they do.
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I think I see the problem.
 
Krgrecw said:
I'm not talking about Colorado which has never been in the news for crime problems. I'm talking about the inner cities where 90% of the crimes we hear about happen. You think street dealers, gangs and the addicts who rob people (all because of drugs) are going to clean up thier acts? It's all they know. It's what they do.
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Gotta start somewhere...
 
Krgrecw said:
if drugs were legalized the crimes associated with drugs wouldn't subside at all.
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What crimes are associated with drugs? If I can buy a blunt at 7/11 why would I buy it from a random guy on the street in the first place. If someone does sell drugs on the street and they get robbed they can call the police instead of getting in a shoot out. When people know you cant call the cops because you sell drugs it makes you a target. If you know your a target you carry a gun.

What other crimes? People committing robberies and break ins for money to buy drugs? That happens already. Heck it happens for alcohol and tobacco. Homeless man close to where I live pulled a knife on the gas station cashier for a single pack of cigarettes. **** happens. What we are doing is punishing the 95% of drug users who dont do those things.

Krgrecw said:
What portion of crime would go away? The small percent of crime attributed to people like you and me?
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It is well documented that a first arrest generally starts people on a downward path. Someone gets arrested for pot and fired from their job. Cant get a decent job now with a serious drug conviction. The high level of stress from their life melting down only strengthens their drug addiction. Next thing you know they are committing real crimes for money. Was it the drugs that lead to this or the arrest?

Krgrecw said:
We have those programs today and they don't work. Whether or drugs are legal or not, the inner cities are still a cluster****. The more prevalent and accessible hard drugs are will actually lead to more crime. How will the newly addicted people be able to support thier drug habits after they lose thier jobs?
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We cant fix 50 years of damage from the war on drugs overnight. I think you underestimate the people who have had a drug habit and worked through it or eventually quit without ever being arrested. With all the extra tax revenue and savings from cutting the incarceration rate in half could pay for a **** load of rehab for people. People that commit crimes on drugs still go to prison.

thethe said:
I think a good portion of crime would phase out but I think we are fooling ourselves in thinking this will be a magic touch that eliminates all.

We need to reach the youth in these areas and provide them with another path. The only way to do that is with economic opportunity.
Click to expand...

You are right about economic opportunity. Right now there is a huge economic opportunity in selling drugs because of the black market. Then when they get arrested we make it even harder for them to fly straight with a drug conviction. Where it was once 3k a week selling weed or minimum wage at Mcdonalds it becomes unemployed or sell drugs and make big money.

As I have always said if we could actually win the war on drugs and keep drugs 99.9% away from people I might support it but we cant. We cant even keep it out of prisons. Counties have the death penalties for drug use and cant keep drugs out of their country. Yeah, some bad could come from legalization. A lot of bad certainly comes from legal tobacco and alcohol too but the negative effects of prohibition far outweigh the bad that comes from legalization.

Krgrecw said:
I'm not talking about Colorado which has never been in the news for crime problems. I'm talking about the inner cities where 90% of the crimes we hear about happen. You think street dealers, gangs and the addicts who rob people (all because of drugs) are going to clean up thier acts? It's all they know. It's what they do.
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I imagine the street dealers would go out of business. I dont see many alcohol and tobacco street dealers. The gangs would not have an economic incentive to keep rival drug selling gangs out of their territory. The addicts who rob are a small minority of drug users. Cops dont want to be judge by the actions of bad cops and drug users dont want to be judged by the actions of a bad drug users. Maybe they wouldnt be in the position to need to rob people if not for being arrested and convicted for drugs many times throughout their life.

Let me give you one example. A NY cop was killed while sitting in his van about a month ago. The killers first arrest was for selling drugs. Like I said before he choose 3k a week vs 150 bucks a week. Surely the first 18 year old to do something stupid and risky. So he gets prison for selling drugs. Now he gets out and cant get a job. Little options in life he turns to burglary. Gets arrested and sent to prison again. Now he is out again and homeless. Living on the streets. Then he sees a cop sitting in a van and decides to commit suicide by cop and takes one down with him. Who knows where his life goes if not for that first arrest. This **** is all a circle. It comes back to cops like it did in NY. If officer safety was truly a priority they would be advocating the end of the war on drugs. That is why I have no sympathy for them. They vocally and financially support the policies that get cops killed then cry like babies when they suffer the consequences.
 
thethe said:
So still.....no actual policy direction from the Obama administration that led to job creation. I'll wait for you to answer that question at some point.
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what did obama do?

do you remember the state of the economy when obama took over? people citing nonsense about a small stock market bump since trump took office. anybody remember where we were when obama took over?

don't even bother replying with some orwellian bull****. i am well past the time of "debating" with trumpies. logic clearly has no place, nor does education, civility, tolerance, or truth in that world.
 
chipchildress said:
what did obama do?
do you remember the state of the economy when obama took over? people citing nonsense about a small stock market bump since trump took office. anybody remember where we were when obama took over?

don't even bother replying with some orwellian bull****. i am well past the time of "debating" with trumpies. logic clearly has no place, nor does education, civility, tolerance, or truth in that world.
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obama came in a **** storm. That's a positive for him. That crisis allowed him and the fed to do a lot of **** that is bad for us long term, yet gave us a shot in the arm short term... no doubt. I don't plan to give him credit for the federal reserve deciding to create trillions of new dollars and take interest rates to zero. If you do give him credit for that - then you don't know how this works.

I would much rather come into a situation at its worst (only way to go but up)... then at its best (little room for growth).
 
Krgrecw said:
We have those programs today and they don't work. Whether or drugs are legal or not, the inner cities are still a cluster****. The more prevalent and accessible hard drugs are will actually lead to more crime. How will the newly addicted people be able to support thier drug habits after they lose thier jobs?
Click to expand...

we need to stop locking up people for smoking weed, but the prison industrial complex isn't going to let that happen easily. the prison cycle gets men very early and they can never escape. it usually starts with small crimes such as a marijuana possession and a missed court date or something.

the war on drugs is a huge part of this cycle and is exactly what the trumps of the world really want to continue. follow the prison money folks. it's not a secret. they need to fill those private prisons with "criminals".
 
chipchildress said:
we need to stop locking up people for smoking weed, but the prison industrial complex isn't going to let that happen easily. the prison cycle gets men very early and they can never escape. it usually starts with small crimes such as a marijuana possession and a missed court date or something.

the war on drugs is a huge part of this cycle and is exactly what the trumps of the world really want to continue. follow the prison money folks. it's not a secret. they need to fill those private prisons with "criminals".
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Agreed. but the dems haven't done much for them either.

Libertarians are the only politicians that I believe will actually do something about this
 
Also forgot to mention that legal weed dispensaries are statistically proven to lessen crime around the shop because there is such a high amount of traffic going in and out of the store. Criminals dont like places with a lot of witnesses. So if you want to live in the safest part of town move next to a pot dispensary.
 
Lol Marijuana. Hello 1996.

Let's talk about $5 bags of heroin, Narcan grant money, and the opioid crisis.
 
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Confidence - is the long form of "con" as in con man or long or short con
Sure am glad others get "confidence"
 
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