The Trump Presidency

You have to look at state and local GOP initiatives on LGBT issues to get a comprehensive picture of why conservative concern-trolling on gay rights is so laughable.
 
bravesnumberone said:
It is pretty awesome that to some the Supreme Court decision was government overreach but the orchestrated attempt to get a constitutional amendment outlawing gay marriage wasn't.

I'm of the opinion that you can certainly be gay and conservative overall, but the Republican party itself has not stood up for gays at all.
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Agree with everything.
 
AerchAngel said:
It comes across like that but considering blacks are more homophobic than whites by a very large margin, hell not even in the same area code, and they are Democrat. Its tough in my neck of the woods if you declare that you are especially black males, you will be be teased, but they will accept you with that stigma to them. This is the reason why they have to be quiet in pro sports in almost all instances and when you do declare, it does not end well.

Forcing someone to change the attitude is only making it worst it seems. Only acceptance can come from understanding and not demanding. I tell my several gay cousins that when they ask me why do people treat them like that. I just tell don't be forceful let them accept you for you and not let it be a "sexuality" that dominates your personality.

The LGBT is shooting themselves with the demanding part but they will not cross paths with blacks again. They avoid them because not too long ago one tried to explain their rights were similar to black civil rights. That did not end well. There is no comparison. I think the black person said something of the effect of "look at me, no, look at me, can I hide that when there is a sign on a door that say "Blacks are not allowed". Now look at you, I can't tell if you are gay or not unless you tell me. It took awhile for the gay person to finally get it. I do understand they don't want to hide and a lot of them don't. We have two at work, but don't flaunt it or make it about themselves either and all is good, great and cheerful workers too.

There is nothing to deny them of their happiness here in the States, might be dangerous in the Middle East though or Islamic Asia. Nothing, except being married in a church of their choosing which is basically not necessary in the grand scheme of life.
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Not really true, though I get where you're coming from. Standing up for one's rights is not 'flaunting' it or 'demanding' others to accept them. We understand that a great many folks will never accept us. It's pointing out, sometimes with emphasis, that we're equal citizens, not secondary, that one's religious beliefs are fine for them (though ignorant imo), just don't force them on us with laws and discrimination. Do you think we should just be passive and let the abuse continue because others are uncomfortable with the idea of two men or two women together, even though it doesn't affect them in the slightest? That doesn't work. Not going to sit by and let these 'religious freedom' laws take over the country these days, or what have you. In 20 years, I do believe most everyone will look back at the controversies and find them shamefully backwards.

I'm not sure what example you're referring to with the 'will not cross paths with blacks again'. Personally, I've never been entirely comfortable with the comparison to black civil rights, though there are obvious parallels as with any civil rights movement. If anything, we've learned from the black civil rights movements, and owe a great deal to them and the brave men and women who have fought for them. I do find it odd that there's a prevailing amount of homophobia within the black community, but that's just me thinking 'But you know what it feels like to be discriminated against! You should be against discrimination of any kind!' I'm admittedly naïve about these issues within the black community though and why it is like that.

As for being able to hide oneself or blend in unseen, while having obvious advantages, it is not the great convenience that it might seem on the surface. When in the closet, there's a particular torment that comes with hiding your true self day in and day out, with the fear of discovery suffocating every room one walks into. It's raw non-stop mental and emotional torture that cuts at one's soul. That's why you hear openly gay folks encourage those in the closet to come out, and talk about life being so much better, healthier. When out of the closet, there's still the occasional discrimination to deal with, particularly from the religious right, though not usually at the level of fearing the police type of discrimination. Bottom line, it's not like it's rainbows and lollipops once out of the closet.
 
AerchAngel said:
You will be surprise how many Democrats want their guns (again Blacks it is around 95%) too, especially here in Wisconsin and you would be surprise how many Republicans are against the wall, north of 70%. They think it is a waste of money.

Kind of a backhand statement their Dane if I may say so. You have to say both because a lot of blacks think like a Republican socially. So it is not exclusive to Republicans.
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No, I don't have to say both. You're actually stating the case for me. Regardless of social beliefs about gays, they're voting democrat, which stands up for and fights for gay rights. So, whatever issue(s) drive them to vote Democrat, those issues align with gays and the Democratic platform. Republicans actively want to implement restrictions on gays. This is not some 'sorry to do this' feature of the GOP. They are very actively trying to create laws against gay people as one of the tent pole positions of their party.
 
DaneHill said:
No, I don't have to say both. You're actually stating the case for me. Regardless of social beliefs about gays, they're voting democrat, which stands up for and fights for gay rights. So, whatever issue(s) drive them to vote Democrat, those issues align with gays and the Democratic platform. Republicans actively want to implement restrictions on gays. This is not some 'sorry to do this' feature of the GOP. They are very actively trying to create laws against gay people as one of the tent pole positions of their party.
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First lets get the Democrat vote out of the way. WELFARE and importantly at first the Republicans stabbed them in the back in regards to Civil Rights Act. If they did not did that blacks would be hardcore Republicans today due to their social attitudes in regards to church.

........

Here we go, what restriction? Marriage? A Civil contract and shot down that can't be revived in court. There is no other restriction out there. Now if you are saying acceptance, you have a big leg to stand on. Read what I directed at Sav about the black community (also addresses social tendencies of blacks that differ from Democrats). You will understand much more about what I posted. You will see parallels in what I counsel the blacks I know are gay. They can approach me without me condemning them at all. It is their lot in life they have to live to the best they can. I know they want to shout but the world will never be ready for something like that and sadly to say probably never.

Being different is seen in that light, just like sexism, just like racism, it is something that will never go away.
 
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AerchAngel said:
First lets get the Democrat vote out of the way. WELFARE and importantly at first the Republicans stabbed them in the back in regards to Civil Rights Act. If they did not did that blacks would be hardcore Republicans today due to their social attitudes in regards to church.

........

Here we go, what restriction? Marriage? A Civil contract and shot down that can't be revived in court. There is no other restriction out there. Now if you are saying acceptance, you have a big leg to stand on. Read what I directed at Sav about the black community (also addresses social tendencies of blacks that differ from Democrats). You will understand much more about what I posted. You will see parallels in what I counsel the blacks I know are gay. They can approach me without me condemning them at all. It is their lot in life they have to live to the best they can. I know they want to shout but the world will never be ready for something like that and sadly to say probably never.

Being different is seen in that light, just like sexism, just like racism, it is something that will never go away.
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Why would gay black people come to you for counsel ?
please
 
I had to reread this from you, deep, great post by the way:

"As for being able to hide oneself or blend in unseen, while having obvious advantages, it is not the great convenience that it might seem on the surface. When in the closet, there's a particular torment that comes with hiding your true self day in and day out, with the fear of discovery suffocating every room one walks into. It's raw non-stop mental and emotional torture that cuts at one's soul. That's why you hear openly gay folks encourage those in the closet to come out, and talk about life being so much better, healthier. When out of the closet, there's still the occasional discrimination to deal with, particularly from the religious right, though not usually at the level of fearing the police type of discrimination. Bottom line, it's not like it's rainbows and lollipops once out of the closet."

That has to suck but let me ask you, who are they to you? EFF THEM. Do what you do how you want to do, don't hide your sexuality to anyone. Now PDA in certain places is not condone straight or not. That is the only way you have people to accept you. hide or demand is not doing any good for you. The workers here at work are gay and happy and not anyone (almost all that work here are die hard Republicans) give them a hard time or treat them any differently. They get invited to get togethers to a bar after work. They are just another person. You have to think like that.

Sorry if I am harsh. I am black, THE ONLY ONE but I don't let it deter me. If I feel I am not welcome, I just go somewhere else.
 
Another to file under the now bursting-at-the-seams But why do they hate us?! folder:

[tw]871400917995839488[/tw]
 
bravesnumberone said:
It is pretty awesome that to some the Supreme Court decision was government overreach but the orchestrated attempt to get a constitutional amendment outlawing gay marriage wasn't.

I'm of the opinion that you can certainly be gay and conservative overall, but the Republican party itself has not stood up for gays at all.
Click to expand...

Why should they?
 
Julio3000 said:
You have to look at state and local GOP initiatives on LGBT issues to get a comprehensive picture of why conservative concern-trolling on gay rights is so laughable.
Click to expand...

Unlike you I don't box myself into a R or D, and thus can be conservative while also supporting individual rights
 
jpx7 said:
Yes: I think more equitable distribution of resources is more moral than the consolidation of wealth to the wealthy.
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So, these are my questions. Are you hesitant to add the term "by force" to the end of "equitable distribution of resources?" And my second question is what is your evidence that capitalism, relatively speaking, leads to consolidation of wealth to the wealthy?
 
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