The Trump Presidency

Jaw said:
Do you really believe that is the primary motivation for people who support a voucher system?
.
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Many yes.

Was the motivation for the influx of "Christian Schools" in the south after Brown vs Board of Ed religious ?
Some I would think -- others it provided cover to choose who taught their children and who their children studied with
 
57Brave said:
Many yes.

Was the motivation for the influx of "Christian Schools" in the south after Brown vs Board of Ed religious ?
Some I would think -- others it provided cover to choose who taught their children and who their children studied with
Click to expand...

There's no question that this example fits in some cases. I think the trap we all tend to fall into (myself definitely included) is that we like to find one answer, one explanation, one solution, etc., when there are always several, usually a LOT. It's like why do couples get divorced. There are some examples that explain it better than others, and I'm sure there are statistics that carve the reasons up into a nice pie chart, but I think it's way more complicated than we like it to be, which may be the biggest reason of all why it never actually gets fixed.

EDIT: I can't tell you how many "Pray for America" type signs I saw in people's yards during the Obama presidency, I very rarely see one these days. I"m sure that's just a coincidence too.
 
57Brave said:
I listened to an interesting podcast last week on this subject. The lady being interviewed argued that advocacy for school choice nothing more than a 21st century form of school segregation.
Separate but equal. Emphasis on the separate. Not so much the equal.

I agree the model being used is outdated. But disagree that public schools are incapable of being effective.

Florida is the size of some countries
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Lol
 
Oklahomahawk said:
There are people at the national or state (ie political folks) who are usually the driving force behind it and it's for exactly what I said it's for from the Repub side. Of course Dems fight against it primarily for the same reason though an obviously opposite outcome. It's all about votes and money and power to them.

On the personal/individual level of course there are people who just want the best education for their kids, but it's been my experience those aren't the main (numbers) force involved. Some really do just want the best possible education for their children and I commend them and we all know people who we can use as examples. The most numbers IMO are those who just want the babysitting and social club and next generation of local and regional leaders, ie the social elite of a particular area
and other similar types of perks that cajun mentioned, and as long as little Johnny and little Mary get good grades and their share of accolades the parents just assume they're getting a good education.

There are always examples of good people just wanting the best (I mean the actual best, not just the easiest) for their kids, but I have not seen nearly as many of those as I have the other kind. Bedell and I used to have this conversation a lot ((I miss Bedell by the way) if a person's experiences show examples of one type or another that's usually the ones we remember and the ones we apply to such questions and discussions.

It's like the lazy, incompetent "just doing it for the power trip and the paycheck" teachers you hear used as examples for what's wrong with our education system. We all know at least a couple of those, but that really isn't how most of them are. The useless ones should be gotten rid of ASAP but they usually have some kind of family or other "connections" in the community, which is often why they got their job in the first place. If we really looked at what most teachers do on most days we'd see one of the best and most dedicated and selfless group of professionals in this country. Now the parents, and the kids, and the administrators, that's a whole other can of worms.
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I should have specified, but I was asking specifically about the bolded part. I concur that the politics surrounding school choice and vouchers have become the standard fecal spider web.
 
Jaw said:
I should have specified, but I was asking specifically about the bolded part. I concur that the politics surrounding school choice and vouchers have become the standard fecal spider web.
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I'm not sure what to tell you. As I said before I have seen quite a few parents who talk about just wanting the best education for their children but pretty much any time that means their kids get into trouble for just about anything they're looking to move them somewhere where they won't get into trouble, the kids are rarely if ever to blame for those parents, just keeping their kids happy, which often involves just putting them somewhere that will take care of them but not push them too hard when they don't want to be pushed. As you said there are those parents that truly want their kids to be pushed and encouraged and worked hard to get the most out of their educational experience and I totally respect that, but from my personal experiences those aren't the majority by any stretch. Parents are either stretched to the limit just to make it in their own jobs, lives, etc., and they don't want that one extra stresser on their minds (my kid is not happy because they got into trouble at school) so they take the easiest way out that they can. Our public school system needs some serious overhauling but I don't see that ever happening because of all the things being discussed here today, by all sides. Too many imperfections and too much politics and hidden agendas to deal with so we keep sticking with what sorta works because that's just so much easier than biting the bullet and really doing things right.
 
57Brave said:
Many yes.

Was the motivation for the influx of "Christian Schools" in the south after Brown vs Board of Ed religious ?
Some I would think -- others it provided cover to choose who taught their children and who their children studied with
Click to expand...

I agree with you that this has been a factor both historically and currently.

My point was that while I agree with Oklahoma that the parents he mentions do a lot to screw up public schools, I think they are repelled from private schools specifically because private schools have a greater power to stop serving them. The shenanigans that parents use to bully powerless public school administrators will get them tossed out of private schools.

As an aside, I was recently informed that the two largest Christian schools in my rural-ish Georgia county are more racially diverse than the county's public schools. Both schools also have a long wait list and plan expansion. I find that encouraging.
 
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57Brave said:
I listened to an interesting podcast last week on this subject. The lady being interviewed argued that advocacy for school choice nothing more than a 21st century form of school segregation.
Separate but equal. Emphasis on the separate. Not so much the equal.

I agree the model being used is outdated. But disagree that public schools are incapable of being effective.

Florida is the size of some countries
Click to expand...

57Brave said:
not sure what you found funny ?

based on population Florida would in fact rank 58-60 largest country in the world
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Oh the part about private schools being the same as segregation
 
you should hear the lady out, she makes some good points.
Remind me the origin of the phrase "in order to form a more perfect union ... "
 
actually it was member of congress, not members.

One out of 435.

As much as I detest the policies of my representative, I would defend him tooth and nail from that broad brush painting
 
57Brave said:
actually it was member of congress, not members.

One out of 435.

As much as I detest the policies of my representative, I would defend him tooth and nail from that broad brush painting
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The amount of millionaires in congress doesn't align well with their pay
 
My representative was a successful farmer and land owner before being elected.

If not mistaken the majority are lawyers.
My point is one ( in most cases) has to be successful to some degree to be elected.
Being successful in our country is measured in the do-re-mi.

I would guess well over 50% are millionaires
Are you saying one must be a crook to be a millionaire ?


Reeks of class envy from where I sit
 
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57Brave said:
My representative was a successful farmer and land owner before being elected.

If not mistaken the majority are lawyers.
My point is one ( in most cases) has to be successful to some degree to be elected.
Being successful in our country is measured in the do-re-mi.

I would guess well over 50% are millionaires
Are you saying one must be a crook to be a millionaire ?


Reeks of class envy from where I sit
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No. I'm saying look at their net worth when they enter, and when they leave.

Recognizing the dangers in asking you to do math
 
You look and report back, it is your point that they all steal because you know, they are government.
Your statement is reminiscent of Tail Gunner Joe saying the State Department was filled with Commies.
and
Quit asking people to make your points for you, if you have something to say ---- say it

As far as math, I know what 2 +2 equals and as a wise man once said, "dont need a weatherman to now which way the wind blows"
Discussing politics on a baseball message board has never been ( by a long stretch ) confused with high levels of intellectual discourse
 
57Brave said:
You look and report back, it is your point that they all steal because you know, they are government.
Your statement is reminiscent of Tail Gunner Joe saying the State Department was filled with Commies.
and
Quit asking people to make your points for you, if you have something to say ---- say it

As far as math, I know what 2 +2 equals and as a wise man once said, "dont need a weatherman to now which way the wind blows"
Discussing politics on a baseball message board has never been ( by a long stretch ) confused with high levels of intellectual discourse
Click to expand...


SorrowfulPleasedHarborseal-size_restricted.gif
 
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