The Trump Presidency

sturg33 said:
You wanna get on your bitchfest about me and the pillow guy, you should not spread fake news.

He was relieved bc he sent a memo over an unsecured line with over 30 people copied which is against protocol.

I'm not saying I agree with it. But let's at least be honest about it
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As opposed Dr. Ronnie Jackson who gave that ridiculously fake medical analysis of Trump who was then nominated to be Secretary of Veteran Affairs. Then after withdrawing from the nomination because he was so unqualified and incompetent he was given a brand new position of Medical Adviser to the President. Dishonesty is rewarded by Trump so long as he perceives it to benefit him.
 
cajunrevenge said:
As opposed Dr. Ronnie Jackson who gave that ridiculously fake medical analysis of Trump who was then nominated to be Secretary of Veteran Affairs. Then after withdrawing from the nomination because he was so unqualified and incompetent he was given a brand new position of Medical Adviser to the President. Dishonesty is rewarded by Trump so long as he perceives it to benefit him.
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Pretty sure every one of your posts leads with 'as opposed to...'
 
nsacpi said:
the damage inflicted by chosen one on our institutions and civic fabric is incalculable
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I don’t like orange man, but if you think these fissures didn’t already exist before he came aboard than I have a retail store in Brooklyn to sell you.
 
chop2chip said:
I don’t like orange man, but if you think these fissures didn’t already exist before he came aboard than I have a retail store in Brooklyn to sell you.
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If we are talking about institutions, rather than the electorate, I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment here. Fissures existed, yes, but Trump has put in the splitting wedge and swung the maul.
 
Metaphysicist said:
If we are talking about institutions, rather than the electorate, I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment here. Fissures existed, yes, but Trump has put in the splitting wedge and swung the maul.
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What do you mean exactly by “Trump splitting wedge and swung the maul”? The credibility of for profit media was questionable, lobbyists and special interest groups controlled policy, politicians grandstanded, wars started and continued by both political parties on a foundation of lies.

Trump just introduced professional wrestling to a game that existed before he arrived in town. So when you guys say the damage is “incalculable”, what does that even mean?
 
chop2chip said:
What do you mean exactly by “Trump splitting wedge and swung the maul”? The credibility of for profit media was questionable, lobbyists and special interest groups controlled policy, politicians grandstanded, wars started and continued by both political parties on a foundation of lies.

Trump just introduced professional wrestling to a game that existed before he arrived in town. So when you guys say the damage is “incalculable”, what does that even mean?
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All politicians lie...we all lie...however, we now have a president whose default setting is disinformation...it is news when he deviates from this default setting...this is something new...and in my not so humble opinion incalculable damaging to our civic fabric

And then there is the damage to institutions...it is true that the strength, effective and credibility of many of these institutions has been in decline for decades...he has undoubtedly greatly accelerated this decline in many cases

I happen not to view this decline as inevitable...I think from the rubble of this crisis we can bring about a renewal...MAGA is not such a bad slogan...it just fell in the wrong hands
 
For example saying he blocked travel from China early. It had several notable exceptions and did not include Americans returning home. It was also the unanimous recomendation by his aides and advisors.
 
cajunrevenge said:
For example saying he blocked travel from China early. It had several notable exceptions and did not include Americans returning home. It was also the unanimous recomendation by his aides and advisors.
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And a LOT of flight crews refused to go there and for at least a couple of weeks before he pulled the plug.
 
chop2chip said:
What do you mean exactly by “Trump splitting wedge and swung the maul”? The credibility of for profit media was questionable, lobbyists and special interest groups controlled policy, politicians grandstanded, wars started and continued by both political parties on a foundation of lies.

Trump just introduced professional wrestling to a game that existed before he arrived in town. So when you guys say the damage is “incalculable”, what does that even mean?
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Trump has made it his #1 mission to destroy basic governmental functionality. A subset of Republicans has always wanted to do this, but they've never actually had the power to do so at the scale we've currently seen. Dumb people whine about the deep state or whatever, but a functional professional bureaucracy is something we've long had and relied upon, but which is essentially collapsing under this administration.

That's just one facet. Most every institution looks worse today than when the administration took office.
 
Metaphysicist said:
Trump has made it his #1 mission to destroy basic governmental functionality. A subset of Republicans has always wanted to do this, but they've never actually had the power to do so at the scale we've currently seen. Dumb people whine about the deep state or whatever, but a functional professional bureaucracy is something we've long had and relied upon, but which is essentially collapsing under this administration.

That's just one facet. Most every institution looks worse today than when the administration took office.
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Got it. Valid points.

But like nascpi alluded to above, these institutions were on a downward trajectory before Trump, and I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing that your average citizen question the institutions that should be designed to serve their interests. With or without Trump, we have ample evidence that this wasn’t happening.

FYI - I’m not a libertarian. I think the government should serve a critical role. I just don’t think our particular brand of government is all that effective at doing it. Too many special interest groups and too much bureaucracy.
 
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chop2chip said:
Got it. Valid points.

But like nascpi alluded to above, these institutions were on a downward trajectory before Trump, and I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing that your average citizen question the institutions that should be designed to serve their interests. With or without Trump, we have ample evidence that this wasn’t happening.

FYI - I’m not a libertarian. I think the government should serve a critical role. I just don’t think our particular brand of government is all that effective at doing it. Too many special interest groups and too much bureaucracy.
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Strange but I wonder how they feel about the previous administration completely bastardizing the FBI/CIA/IRS.

You dont hear that bring discussed.

DESTROYED INSTITUTIONS!!
 
You mean the FBI that publicly investigated Hillary Clinton during an election and according to the IG Horowitz, Comey told Congress they had reopened the case because the NY office thought Hillary was the anti-Christ and would leak it to the media to hurt her? That FBI? I agree they are bastards, but probably not for the same reasons.
 
or the CIA that cooked the books so Cheney/Bush could invade / occupy Iraq

Or the CIA that sold arms to Iran to fund the Contras

Or the FBI that secretly taped --- lord knows --- Hoffa-or MLK or any of hundreds of Viet Nam war resisters ?


Y'all act like the world started in 2008
 
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57Brave said:
or the CIA that cooked the books so Cheney/Bush could invade / occupy Iraq

Or the CIA that sold arms to Iran to fund the Contras

Or the FBI that secretly taped --- lord knows --- Hoffa-or MLK or any of hundreds of Viet Nam war resisters ?


Y'all act like the world started in 2008
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See this is where you are wrong. We are awake now because we have seem what happened the past 30 years.

For some reason you think MAGA is solely anti democrat but some of the people we most passionately rail against are republican establisment figures.

Bush and Cheney ruined the nation with Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama just doubled down and made it worse.

Clinton sold the nation out to China.
 
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