This deserves its own thread

cajunrevenge said:
They just need to Fredi - proof the roster. No relievers or batters with reverse platoon splits. Fredi won't use them right. BJ has to, that's the only way to ensure Fredi won't bat him leadoff. We need someone with good OBP skills who doesn't hit for a lot of power to hit in the top 2. If they hit for too much power Fredi will want to bat them lower in the order and put Simmons in the top 2.

Odds are we would just get the same **** if we hired a new manager. There are 30 teams and 25 of those fan bases think they have the worst manager. Fredi doesn't handicap us, he just doesn't give us an advantage. The best thing you can do is give him good options. It's when he has to make tough decisions that he often chooses the worst possible choice.
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That's why he has to go.
 
50PoundHead said:
I'm all for the clean slate. Fredi should go as well as Wren.
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I agree with this. I'd like to see a new voice in the club house, but this idea that firing Fredi will make this team much better is foolish. Fredi is so horrible as a manager that he has a career 634-569 record. IMO, Fredi's managerial decisions cost this team maybe 2-3 games on the year, which is what I'd guess is pretty much across the board for major league baseball managers.

The fact that this team had trouble scoring runs when they didn't hit a home run and couldn't bridge the gap between the starters and the pen had a much larger effect on the fact that this team had a losing record this year.
 
KB21 said:
I agree with this. I'd like to see a new voice in the club house, but this idea that firing Fredi will make this team much better is foolish. Fredi is so horrible as a manager that he has a career 634-569 record. IMO, Fredi's managerial decisions cost this team maybe 2-3 games on the year, which is what I'd guess is pretty much across the board for major league baseball managers.

The fact that this team had trouble scoring runs when they didn't hit a home run and couldn't bridge the gap between the starters and the pen had a much larger effect on the fact that this team had a losing record this year.
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I don't think anyone disagrees the offense and lesser bullpen are the main contributors. But Fredi helped nail the door shut several times with mind-numbingly awful decisions. Not to mention leaving Kimbrel in the pen in the playoffs last year.

Also, this team flat out quit the last month of the year. To me, that does not justify keeping Fredi.
 
cajunrevenge said:
They just need to Fredi - proof the roster. No relievers or batters with reverse platoon splits. Fredi won't use them right. BJ has to, that's the only way to ensure Fredi won't bat him leadoff. We need someone with good OBP skills who doesn't hit for a lot of power to hit in the top 2. If they hit for too much power Fredi will want to bat them lower in the order and put Simmons in the top 2.

Odds are we would just get the same **** if we hired a new manager. There are 30 teams and 25 of those fan bases think they have the worst manager. Fredi doesn't handicap us, he just doesn't give us an advantage. The best thing you can do is give him good options. It's when he has to make tough decisions that he often chooses the worst possible choice.
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What manager in baseball does give his team an advantage though? I think Buck Showalter is the best in baseball by a significant margin, but I'm not sure I can even point to where he gives his team enough of an advantage where it makes much of a difference relative to wins and losses. I doubt Buck could come in and make BJ Upton a good hitter or make Andrelton Simmons a better base runner.
 
bravesnumberone said:
I don't think anyone disagrees the offense and lesser bullpen are the main contributors. But Fredi helped nail the door shut several times with mind-numbingly awful decisions. Not to mention leaving Kimbrel in the pen in the playoffs last year.

Also, this team flat out quit the last month of the year. To me, that does not justify keeping Fredi.
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I'm curious then. Should Bob Melvin be fired for Oakland's collapse this year? I bring him up because he is a guy many of the sabermetric guys tout as one of the best managers in baseball because he is willing to use the data in his decisions, yet Oakland went from having the best record in baseball to having to win its last game just to get into a one game playoff.
 
KB21 said:
I'm curious then. Should Bob Melvin be fired for Oakland's collapse this year? I bring him up because he is a guy many of the sabermetric guys tout as one of the best managers in baseball because he is willing to use the data in his decisions, yet Oakland went from having the best record in baseball to having to win its last game just to get into a one game playoff.
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Oakland is in the playoffs. You can't call it a collapse, not when they could still win the World Series. The guy went out there and made some great in-game moves and did what he could to get them to the playoffs. He succeeded.
 
Dalyn said:
Oakland is in the playoffs. You can't call it a collapse, not when they could still win the World Series. The guy went out there and made some great in-game moves and did what he could to get them to the playoffs. He succeeded.
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Lmao. The two times Fredi has made the playoffs it was in spite of him.

If the A's lose the wild card game will that be a failure? Being up as many games as they were?
 
I'm not gonna bother with the Braves. I'll post here, I'll check in on the guys I like (Jason, Justin, Freddie, Gattis, Simmons, Minor, Julio, Wood, and Kimbrel) but aside from checking stats/highlights I'm not watching them play live or online, I'm not buying anything Braves related, I'm not gonna do a damned thing to support the Braves if all they care about is loyalty.
 
KB21 said:
I'm curious then. Should Bob Melvin be fired for Oakland's collapse this year? I bring him up because he is a guy many of the sabermetric guys tout as one of the best managers in baseball because he is willing to use the data in his decisions, yet Oakland went from having the best record in baseball to having to win its last game just to get into a one game playoff.
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Oakland is in the playoffs. They don't have the same resources we have, and they have not "collapsed" before like this team has with Fredi. Anything else?
 
BJ#1FAN said:
Lmao. The two times Fredi has made the playoffs it was in spite of him.

If the A's lose the wild card game will that be a failure? Being up as many games as they were?
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Yes.

As for the bit about Fredi. Do you watch Oakland? I do. Almost as much as I watch the Braves. The difference between Fredi and Melvin is drastic.
 
Dalyn said:
And you are just as wrong this time as you were the first time you said it.
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Who do you replace him with that makes us win 162 games?

If hes the worst manager ever.

Hint, every fanbase hates their manager.
 
Heyward said:
Who do you replace him with that makes us win 162 games?

If hes the worst manager ever.

Hint, every fanbase hates their manager.
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No, they don't. And who cares if they do? Who cares if other teams also have bad managers? What does that have to do with the Braves? Are the Braves required to keep a bad manager because other teams do?
 
I'd replace him with a manager whose team doesn't quit on him down the stretch.

I'd replace him with a guy who knows not to hit BJ freaking Upton leadoff.

I'd replace him with a guy who knows how to use his bench.

I'd replace him with a guy who doesn't leave Kimbrel in the pen with the season on the line.

There has to be more than a couple guys out there.
 
Dalyn said:
No, they don't. And who cares if they do? Who cares if other teams also have bad managers? What does that have to do with the Braves? Are the Braves required to keep a bad manager because other teams do?
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No, firing Fredi wont make much difference.

Maybe a 2-3 win difference but hardly a 10-game swing.
 
bravesnumberone said:
I'd replace him with a manager whose team doesn't quit on him down the stretch.

I'd replace him with a guy who knows not to hit BJ freaking Upton leadoff.

I'd replace him with a guy who knows how to use his bench.

I'd replace him with a guy who doesn't leave Kimbrel in the pen with the season on the line.

There has to be more than a couple guys out there.
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Names?
 
the "good" news is with a new GM a bad start will get Fredi canned in May. And there will be a bad start; this team is absolute toast. He "deserves" another year but when we suck again next year they'll realize he's part of the problem.

Nobody who values job security will take the soon to be vacant hitting coach position. They'll be an interim manager, then a real manager for 2016 and he'll want his own guys, not Fredi's second wave.
 
KB21 said:
What manager in baseball does give his team an advantage though? I think Buck Showalter is the best in baseball by a significant margin, but I'm not sure I can even point to where he gives his team enough of an advantage where it makes much of a difference relative to wins and losses. I doubt Buck could come in and make BJ Upton a good hitter or make Andrelton Simmons a better base runner.
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Well one thing he could have done was bat our best hitters in a row at the top of the batting order. Heywood/Justin/Freeman/Gattis. I thought it was well established last year that our offense was at its best with Justin batting second. Why is it then that Fredi didn't try it once this year. They never tried Heywood in center and Gattis in left once either. If it was good enough to start a playoff game how can you not even try it once in 2014.

Other than that the bullpen could be managed better. I still think he should be fired for not bringing in Kimbrel in game 4.
 
Heyward said:
No, firing Fredi wont make much difference.

Maybe a 2-3 win difference but hardly a 10-game swing.
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You've dropped it down from the 4-5 or 5-6 you mentioned before. But even 2-3 games AT THE RIGHT TIME, can be a 4-6 game swing. It can also help the team get out of a rut and go on a streak.
 
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