TLHLIM

Runnin said:
Oh, I assure you there are pompous, arrogant asshats in the blue-collar world and most any segment of society. It may manifest more subtlety but competition for status within a group is just part of being human.

How many jobs do you think J.K. Rowling has created? How about Beyonce or Sir Paul McCartney? I wonder how many non-musicians the music industry employs. Probably only a small percentage of employees in the industry are actual performers.
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There are all manner of flawed people everywhere we can look, but do you really believe the mechanics at your local garage or the cashiers at your grocery store are as pompous as Hollywood actors or pop stars?
 
It can always get worse. Why can't people just live their lives? Why thenobsession with control like this?

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Jaw said:
I agree you can't have intelligent life without creativity. I'm not sure why art would be lumped in as the same as creativity though. Building Machu Picchu or the pyramids were creative, and there is certainly an artistic aspect to architecture, but those things served a tangible purpose and required knowledge and skills. Kids in elementary schools regularly make more accurate representations of the night sky than Van Gogh. So what is great about it, other than a herd mentality driving it to hit status like a Britney Spears song?

As for art, I don't object to it, I don't want to ban it or tear it all down. I just don't think tax money should be used to prop it up, and certainly not deficit spending. JK Rowling and successful musicians don't need our tax money.
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I would add writing computer code is something quite creative as well. Along the lines of solving a puzzle.

Since you asked, I would say Van Gogh's greatness lies in his ability to help us see something that we would not see without his help. "Accuracy of representation" is not a standard I would use in evaluating art. But as the French say a chacun son gout.

I might add that Van Gogh wasn't too impressed with himself or his art. He was ambivalent about Starry Night. He told his brother it might appear as an "exaggeration." He told a critic it was a "setback" and that he had allowed himself to paint the stars "too big."

But it also reflected something very deep that I think most viewers can sense. He wrote to his brother "Just as we take a train to Tarascon or Rouen, we take death to go to a star...While alive, we cannot go to a star, any more than once dead we'd be able to take the train." Everyone sees it differently, but it is definitely a painting that makes people think. The thing that strikes me most is his ability to make the Milky Way seem so close to the cypress tree and the hills. Almost close enough to touch. To give it an explicitly religious interpretation, I would say it brings the transcendent closer to man.
 
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nsacpi said:
I would add writing computer code is something quite creative as well. Along the lines of solving a puzzle.

Since you asked, I would say Van Gogh's greatness lies in his ability to help us see something that we would not see without his help. "Accuracy of representation" is not a standard I would use in evaluating art. But as the French say a chacun son gout.

I might add that Van Gogh wasn't too impressed with himself or his art. He was ambivalent about Starry Night. He told his brother it might appear as an "exaggeration." He told a critic it was a "setback" and that he had allowed himself to paint the stars "too big."

But it also reflected something very deep that I think most viewers can sense. He wrote to his brother "Just as we take a train to Tarascon or Rouen, we take death to go to a star...While alive, we cannot go to a star, any more than once dead we'd be able to take the train." Everyone sees it differently, but it is definitely a painting that makes people think. The thing that strikes me most is his ability to make the Milky Way seem so close to the cypress tree and the hills. Almost close enough to touch. To give it an explicitly religious interpretation, I would say it brings the transcendent closer to man.
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I appreciate the thoughtful response. What do you think Starry Night helps us see that we wouldn't see on our own?
 
Jaw said:
Gosh I wish my wife was willing to move to Wyoming.
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Oh, it’s one of my favorite states

I was just trying to think of where he was gonna put his shack deep in the woods and live off the land “free” and away from the damn commies trying to ruin everything

I almost put Montana
 
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goldfly said:
Oh, it’s one of my favorite states

I was just trying to think of where he was gonna put his shack deep in the woods and live off the land “free” and away from the damn commies trying to ruin everything

I almost put Montana
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Don’t you bring Montana into this. In fact people need to forget it exists. Leave it alone.

Going to Idaho in the summer- hoping it’s similar
 
sturg33 said:
Lincoln was a huge ****ing racist

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I mean, yeah he pretty much was, at least looked at through today's society. Let's remember he didn't free any slaves in the Northern states and advocated sending them back to Africa. But that was par for the course back in the day, so I don't really hold that against him.
 
Jaw said:
I appreciate the thoughtful response. What do you think Starry Night helps us see that we wouldn't see on our own?
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I'll pick up from the religious plane I alluded to in my last post. There are grand cathedrals, modest chapels and a body of sacred music that we have created over the centuries to give glory to God. In addition, someone today who sings a hymn or worships in one of those places will often find that doing so helps to bring them closer to God, helps to bridge some of the mystery that left to our own devices we can only do to a small extent. A non-believer listening to those songs or looking at the spire of a cathedral will catch a glimpse of the spiritual life of the people who wrote them and built it. Looking at cave art helps us to intuit something about the spiritual lives of our ancestors from tens of thousands of years ago.

Starry Night for me (and as I said this is something that will vary from person to person) says something about the wonder of the cosmos. It conveys vastness and this curious intimacy. The village depicted is nestled in the Milky Way. Van Gogh saw the world in a way that I would not consider on my own.

There is another painting of his that accomplishes something similar. As y'all know I'm an insufferable elitist. It is something I need help with. One of his most famous paintings is The Potato Eaters. It shows very humble even shabby folk sitting down for dinner. You can immediately sense something about the hard lives they live. But it also shows their dignity in a really powerful way. So this painting for someone like me is a very useful reminder that people like that are to be appreciated and valued as much as a Nobel Prize winning physicist. Now maybe I could learn this by reading one of Steinbeck's novels or watching a TV show, but for me this painting makes the point in a more vivid way.

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Jaw said:
I agree you can't have intelligent life without creativity. I'm not sure why art would be lumped in as the same as creativity though. Building Machu Picchu or the pyramids were creative, and there is certainly an artistic aspect to architecture, but those things served a tangible purpose and required knowledge and skills. Kids in elementary schools regularly make more accurate representations of the night sky than Van Gogh. So what is great about it, other than a herd mentality driving it to hit status like a Britney Spears song?

As for art, I don't object to it, I don't want to ban it or tear it all down. I just don't think tax money should be used to prop it up, and certainly not deficit spending. JK Rowling and successful musicians don't need our tax money.
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Those tangible objects were only ever possible through creativity, which is fueled by things that inspire us (namely, the arts).

I'm no painting buff. I've never looked at a painting and have it move me in a special way. But songs do.
 
Carp said:
Those tangible objects were only ever possible through creativity, which is fueled by things that inspire us (namely, the arts).

I'm no painting buff. I've never looked at a painting and have it move me in a special way. But songs do.
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I recommend book.

Starry Night: Van Gogh at the Asylum by Martin Bailey

It is picture book. Right speed for you. Sorry I couldn't resist. But great pictures. And it has a really compassionate discussion of his mental illness. His relationship with his brother. There are longer more detailed bios, but this one will help you understand the man and his art. And the animated movie Loving Vincent that was nominated for an Oscar a few years ago is pretty entertaining.

I took an Art History class in college. By that point I was choosing classes in large part based on my expectations about the female population likely to be in that class. But whatever the motivation it was one of the best things I've done.
 
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Our two trips to Europe inadvertently centered around van Gogh.
Amsterdam and Provence.
Some places in the South of France you stand where he stood while he painted

and this place

https://krollermuller.nl/
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At this place you can walk up and touch (verboten ) the work.
Or at the least get so close you can see the layers, sometimes it seems 1/4" thick , of paint.
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Never spent time in Paris or been to St Petersburg-Rome but the museums around Amsterdam featuring van Gogh could provide weeks of journey. Thee is just so much of it.

Walking in his steps is really an eye opener
 
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