Uribe and KJ to NYM

Heyward said:
You dont understand what rebuilding teams due.
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Since when do we need Leadership to tell us that we suck? KJ, Uribe...great guys. They weren't going to pull this team out of the 10th spot in the draft LOL. Now, if we can just get rid of the other decent players who could cost us draft position...hmmmm
 
Deester11 said:
Since when do we need Leadership to tell us that we suck? KJ, Uribe...great guys. They weren't going to pull this team out of the 10th spot in the draft LOL. Now, if we can just get rid of the other decent players who could cost us draft position...hmmmm
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Great post, if the goal is to guarantee a top 10 pick so they can be active in FA, then KJ/Uribe being dealt is fine.
 
striker42 said:
I freely admit they had very limited value to the Braves for the rest of the season. My point is the guys we got have virtually no value at all.

The arguments people make for this trade are arguments for trading KJ and Uribe in general. I agree, trading them makes sense. They should have been shopped. Arguing that they should be traded does not support this as being a good trade.

I just don't get why we accepted two fringey starter prospects. I still think we could have gotten an okay relief prospect (bigger need) who would actually have a better chance of one day providing some value.

I'm not asking for a top 10 prospect. I don't care if the prospect isn't ranked. I just want someone with some kind of value. I don't see any value at all in what we got.

There's plenty of reason to make a trade. There's no reason to make this trade.
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Braves acquired RHP John Gant and RHP Robert Whalen from the Mets for INF Juan Uribe, INF/OF Kelly Johnson and cash considerations.

Gant was the team's 21st round selection from the 2011 draft and has climbed his way up the prospect rankings. The 22-year-old right-hander has compiled a 3.52 ERA, 1.30 WHIP and 91/36 K/BB ratio over 99 2/3 innings between High-A St. Lucie and Double-A Binghampton this season. He has the potential to develop into a top of the rotation starter.

Braves acquired RHP Robert Whalen and RHP John Gant from the Mets for INF Juan Uribe, INF/OF Kelly Johnson and cash considerations.

Whalen, a 21-year-old right-hander, was the Mets 11th round selection from the 2012 draft. He has spent the entire 2015 season at High-A St. Lucie where he has posted a 3.36 ERA, 1.28 WHIP and 61/34 K/BB ratio over 83 innings. He projects as a back of the rotation starter.

Hardly "nothing" as you say but some people just want to bitch and moan about something.
 
Tapate50 said:
Braves acquired RHP John Gant and RHP Robert Whalen from the Mets for INF Juan Uribe, INF/OF Kelly Johnson and cash considerations.
Gant was the team's 21st round selection from the 2011 draft and has climbed his way up the prospect rankings. The 22-year-old right-hander has compiled a 3.52 ERA, 1.30 WHIP and 91/36 K/BB ratio over 99 2/3 innings between High-A St. Lucie and Double-A Binghampton this season. He has the potential to develop into a top of the rotation starter.

Braves acquired RHP Robert Whalen and RHP John Gant from the Mets for INF Juan Uribe, INF/OF Kelly Johnson and cash considerations.
Whalen, a 21-year-old right-hander, was the Mets 11th round selection from the 2012 draft. He has spent the entire 2015 season at High-A St. Lucie where he has posted a 3.36 ERA, 1.28 WHIP and 61/34 K/BB ratio over 83 innings. He projects as a back of the rotation starter.

Hardly "nothing" as you say but some people just want to bitch and moan about something.
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Gant seems he could turn into a setup guy which are never bad to have.

Whalen has some upside, but not sure he'll work out as a SP.
 
striker42 said:
I freely admit they had very limited value to the Braves for the rest of the season. My point is the guys we got have virtually no value at all. ....

I just don't get why we accepted two fringey starter prospects......I'm not asking for a top 10 prospect. I don't care if the prospect isn't ranked. I just want someone with some kind of value. I don't see any value at all in what we got.

There's plenty of reason to make a trade. There's no reason to make this trade.
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2 fringey starter prospects is NOT without value to the Braves, who are pretty good at developing pitching. All they have to do to turn this trade into a big win is to stick with either prospect until they begin to look halfway major league ready.
 
Heyward said:
Gant seems he could turn into a setup guy which are never bad to have.

Whalen has some upside, but not sure he'll work out as a SP.
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Gant has 4 pitches so I doubt you're looking at a bullpen guy unless its the last resort. He can crank it to 95 from reports. I think he has more upside than Whalen, but they are probably both pretty similar.
 
Tapate50 said:
Braves acquired RHP John Gant and RHP Robert Whalen from the Mets for INF Juan Uribe, INF/OF Kelly Johnson and cash considerations.
Gant was the team's 21st round selection from the 2011 draft and has climbed his way up the prospect rankings. The 22-year-old right-hander has compiled a 3.52 ERA, 1.30 WHIP and 91/36 K/BB ratio over 99 2/3 innings between High-A St. Lucie and Double-A Binghampton this season. He has the potential to develop into a top of the rotation starter.

Braves acquired RHP Robert Whalen and RHP John Gant from the Mets for INF Juan Uribe, INF/OF Kelly Johnson and cash considerations.
Whalen, a 21-year-old right-hander, was the Mets 11th round selection from the 2012 draft. He has spent the entire 2015 season at High-A St. Lucie where he has posted a 3.36 ERA, 1.28 WHIP and 61/34 K/BB ratio over 83 innings. He projects as a back of the rotation starter.

Hardly "nothing" as you say but some people just want to bitch and moan about something.
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zbhargrove said:
Gant has 4 pitches so I doubt you're looking at a bullpen guy unless its the last resort. He can crank it to 95 from reports. I think he has more upside than Whalen, but they are probably both pretty similar.
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I think 95 is a bit optimistic. Some minor league guns are notoriously fast. From everything I've read, he usually works between 88 and 91.

Both pitchers are similar in a lot of ways. Both have fastballs described as underwhelming, both see the word "pitchability" applied to them, both have gotten batters out to this point more with deception and being more advanced than with stuff.
 
Tapate50 said:
Braves acquired RHP John Gant and RHP Robert Whalen from the Mets for INF Juan Uribe, INF/OF Kelly Johnson and cash considerations.

Gant was the team's 21st round selection from the 2011 draft and has climbed his way up the prospect rankings. The 22-year-old right-hander has compiled a 3.52 ERA, 1.30 WHIP and 91/36 K/BB ratio over 99 2/3 innings between High-A St. Lucie and Double-A Binghampton this season. He has the potential to develop into a top of the rotation starter.

Braves acquired RHP Robert Whalen and RHP John Gant from the Mets for INF Juan Uribe, INF/OF Kelly Johnson and cash considerations.

Whalen, a 21-year-old right-hander, was the Mets 11th round selection from the 2012 draft. He has spent the entire 2015 season at High-A St. Lucie where he has posted a 3.36 ERA, 1.28 WHIP and 61/34 K/BB ratio over 83 innings. He projects as a back of the rotation starter.

Hardly "nothing" as you say but some people just want to bitch and moan about something.
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I think the top end of the rotation starter thing is a typo. If it's not then this guy is way off.

Best case scenario is generally agreed to be a back end of the rotation starter for both these guys. The same can be said for countless pitchers in the minors.

Odds are neither one reaches even that. The lack of a good fastball is hard to overcome.
 
I find it funny that people here think they can look at stats on a web page and decide who is good and who is worthless.

I suppose if I told you the Braves just traded one of their starters for a minor league guy with a .568 ERA and a 4-10 record at AA, I suppose he would be worthless as well.

This scenario plays out Sunday when that minor league guy enters the baseball HOF. Yes, John Smoltz. So please don't pass yourself off as the end all expert when in the game of baseball at any time any player might hit the right combo and suddenly be a whole lot more than one might think they could became. I will leave that up to the scouts and baseball men that have been doing it for a long long time, sure there are misses, but all one needs is 1 success to make it worthwhile.
 
depley said:
I find it funny that people here think they can look at stats on a web page and decide who is good and who is worthless.

I suppose if I told you the Braves just traded one of their starters for a minor league guy with a .568 ERA and a 4-10 record at AA, I suppose he would be worthless as well.

This scenario plays out Sunday when that minor league guy enters the baseball HOF. Yes, John Smoltz. So please don't pass yourself off as the end all expert when in the game of baseball at any time any player might hit the right combo and suddenly be a whole lot more than one might think they could became. I will leave that up to the scouts and baseball men that have been doing it for a long long time, sure there are misses, but all one needs is 1 success to make it worthwhile.
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Just for perspective... How many of those guys don't turn into smoltzes?
 
depley said:
I find it funny that people here think they can look at stats on a web page and decide who is good and who is worthless.

I suppose if I told you the Braves just traded one of their starters for a minor league guy with a .568 ERA and a 4-10 record at AA, I suppose he would be worthless as well.

This scenario plays out Sunday when that minor league guy enters the baseball HOF. Yes, John Smoltz. So please don't pass yourself off as the end all expert when in the game of baseball at any time any player might hit the right combo and suddenly be a whole lot more than one might think they could became. I will leave that up to the scouts and baseball men that have been doing it for a long long time, sure there are misses, but all one needs is 1 success to make it worthwhile.
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Deferring to the front office in all things would make Internet message boards like this boring. Those both for and against trades like this use the information they have available and debate it here.

It's more than just stats, especially at that level. Smoltz threw high 90's. These guys sit around 90.
 
striker42 said:
I think 95 is a bit optimistic. Some minor league guns are notoriously fast. From everything I've read, he usually works between 88 and 91.

Both pitchers are similar in a lot of ways. Both have fastballs described as underwhelming, both see the word "pitchability" applied to them, both have gotten batters out to this point more with deception and being more advanced than with stuff.
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Those are old reports... Most accounts say 90-95 now
 
striker42 said:
Deferring to the front office in all things would make Internet message boards like this boring. Those both for and against trades like this use the information they have available and debate it here.

It's more than just stats, especially at that level. Smoltz threw high 90's. These guys sit around 90.
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I'd rather have a more boring board, fwiw.

Success at the major league level comes from a lot more than velocity. Low 90's is plenty if a guy can hit his spots, change speed, mix up his pitches, etc.
 
striker42 said:
I think the top end of the rotation starter thing is a typo. If it's not then this guy is way off.

Best case scenario is generally agreed to be a back end of the rotation starter for both these guys. The same can be said for countless pitchers in the minors.

Odds are neither one reaches even that. The lack of a good fastball is hard to overcome.
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These guys are fine, what did you expect for two month rentals on one year deals?
 
Tapate50 said:
These guys are fine, what did you expect for two month rentals on one year deals?
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I expected someone with a chance to contribute at some point. What I really wanted to see was a relief prospect. Someone like the guy the Brewers got for Ramirez. We have more of a need there and a guy like that has a better chance of contributing in Atlanta than either of these guys.

A couple hours before this trade I remarked how the last thing I wanted to target was guys who top out as back end of the rotation guys. In a perfect world that's exactly what these guys become.

I'm not high on either pitcher and neither one fits a need in our system. There's just no upside for us here. That's my problem with this deal. There's plenty of reason to trade KJ and Uribe and I was never expecting much back. But I just don't see any reason to trade for these prospects. They have no value here.
 
It just appears to me that in this trade the Braves have traded for, at best, the second coming of Hale and Martin.

I would have much preferred a couple of bats with potential even if they were very far away from the ML. Guys like OF Wuilmer Becerra and 3B Eudor Garcia were both ranked below Gant and Whelan and are further down the system but both probably have more potential and are at need positions.

I am afraid that the Braves are stuck - pitching, pitching, pitching and need a shove to get out of that groove.
 
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