Viz and Teheran listed as top trade candidates

[Enscheff]

If I'm creating the gaping hole that will exist if I don't have Julio, I've got to have TWO players that are realistically capable of filling holes by 2018.

This is sound reasoning, but only if the goal is to compete in 2017. If they plan on punting in 2017 then it makes sense to trade Julio's present production for the future production of a younger guy.

I'm still on the fence about whether or not to punt 2017. It all hinges on how well Albies and Swanson progress the second half of this year. If they don't show they are ready for MLB action in 2017, then nothing the FO does can make the team competitive next year. If that's the case then it makes sense to trade Julio's "now" for someone like Bregman's future contributions.

 

[zbhargrove]

Benintendi, Swihart, and Chavis wouldn't make you happy? Maybe I'm just much higher on those guys than you.

Swihart doesn't produce enough if he doesn't stick at catcher. As a LFer... He would be one of the worst offensive left fielders in the majors with average to below average D. If he can't stick at catcher he basically has no value. Chavis is nice but far from any answer as he's way away... And struck out 140+ times last year in A ball and their #10 prospect. That's a huge red flag for me. We don't know what the real Chavis is. And Benintendi's stock will fall quite a bit after struggling so bad this year. And IMO his stats never justified how high he was ranked... He was one of those players ranked in hype, not performance. Those 3 players are very underwhelming to me.

 

[clvclv]

You can't project him to be a low ops hitter with his stats. JC would be an idiot not to trade Julio for him. He's the exact type of player we should be going after.

Nobody in the Dodgers' front office or ours "projected" Olivera to flop either.

I think this is one of the times when Coppy's being forthright with the press when he says "the days of us trading players like Julio for prospects are over".

I don't want "projectable" kids in return for the guy who's probably been our most valuable trading chip (including Freeman) all along. If you trade Teheran, you simply can't miss. Missing would set the rebuild back significantly. If you trade him for prospects, they have to be absolute top-shelf prospects, and multiple ones - Benintendi simply isn't one.

FWIW, here's the kinds of deals I think you have to get to move him...

Texas - Gallo and Ryan Cordell or Profar, Cordell, and Travis Demeritte

Boston - Devers, Anderson Espinoza, and Chavis or Benintendi, Espinoza, and Chavis

Houston - Bregman and Derek Fisher

Someone I'd want to talk to if I were Coppy is A. J. Preller. A Teheran for Wil Myers swap (with a 72 hour window to work out an extension) would make a lot of sense IMO. Julio would be a monster in that park where the fly ball tendencies wouldn't hurt him as much as other places. We could immediately plug Myers in in LF and behind Freeman. A Swanson/Freeman/Myers/Desmond or Prado combination would be awfully tough for opposing Pitchers to navigate.

JMO, but if you don't get those types of returns you just don't trade him. Package a couple of the younger arms to go get a hitter.

 

[Tapate50]

Nobody in the Dodgers' front office or ours "projected" Olivera to flop either.

I think this is one of the times when Coppy's being forthright with the press when he says "the days of us trading players like Julio for prospects are over".

I don't want "projectable" kids in return for the guy who's probably been our most valuable trading chip (including Freeman) all along. If you trade Teheran, you simply can't miss. Missing would set the rebuild back significantly. If you trade him for prospects, they have to be absolute top-shelf prospects, and multiple ones - Benintendi simply isn't one.

FWIW, here's the kinds of deals I think you have to get to move him...

Texas - Gallo and Ryan Cordell or Profar, Cordell, and Travis Demeritte

Boston - Devers, Anderson Espinoza, and Chavis or Benintendi, Espinoza, and Chavis

Houston - Bregman and Derek Fisher

Someone I'd want to talk to if I were Coppy is A. J. Preller. A Teheran for Wil Myers swap (with a 72 hour window to work out an extension) would make a lot of sense IMO. Julio would be a monster in that park where the fly ball tendencies wouldn't hurt him as much as other places. We could immediately plug Myers in in LF and behind Freeman. A Swanson/Freeman/Myers/Desmond or Prado combination would be awfully tough for opposing Pitchers to navigate.

JMO, but if you don't get those types of returns you just don't trade him. Package a couple of the younger arms to go get a hitter.

Doesn't Myers have chronic wrist issues? I would need a lot more than that and they really don't have much more to give.

 

[Julio3000]

Benintendi, Swihart, and Chavis wouldn't make you happy? Maybe I'm just much higher on those guys than you.

Just my .02, but that looks like a quantity-over-quality kind of deal. Benintendi is likely going to be a solid player, but there's a lot of doubt about his power and offensive upside. Swihart is only valuable as a catcher, and has thus far been either disappointing or injured. Chavis seems like a nice kid but is going to be a meh player, IMO.

If we're going to deal with the Sox—I personally don't think we will—we need to be shopping at the top of their prospect rankings. That means some combo of Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, Espinoza.

 

[nsacpi]

I like Wil Myers. But I wouldn't make the assumption we can add to his expected surplus value with an extension. For players within a couple years of FA, extensions are usually close to market value.

 

[DirkPiggler]

Just my .02, but that looks like a quantity-over-quality kind of deal. Benintendi is likely going to be a solid player, but there's a lot of doubt about his power and offensive upside. Swihart is only valuable as a catcher, and has thus far been either disappointing or injured. Chavis seems like a nice kid but is going to be a meh player, IMO.

If we're going to deal with the Sox—I personally don't think we will—we need to be shopping at the top of their prospect rankings. That means some combo of Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, Espinoza.

I've shared my concerns about Benintendi and his projected power before. I do not want the Braves to get him assuming he's a 20 HR guy, because at 5'10" 180 (listed) that may be a stretch. His power surge as a sophomore at Arkansas came after a summer of pretty intense strength training, so he may have already exhausted any potential gains in that department.

However, I would also caution everyone to not get too worked up about his slow start in AA, just like I wouldn't assume too much from Alex Bregman killing the ball at that level in hitter friendly parks. Andrew is baseball young - he only has two years of college experience unlike most draftees. I see Benintendi's upside as being a young Markakis, which definitely has value. I see his downside as being old Markakis but with good speed and defense. Or maybe Inciarte with a little less defensive value. Either way he's a player that could help the Braves. If he's packaged with someone with power potential like Devers I'd probably be okay with it, but would prefer more of a sure thing in terms of power.

 

[clvclv]

I like Wil Myers. But I wouldn't make the assumption we can add to his expected surplus value with an extension. For players within a couple years of FA, extensions are usually close to market value.

Agreed. Not thinking so much about surplus value - much more about filling holes.

If we're working under the assumption that Coppy's being at least somewhat serious when he says he doesn't want prospects - that he wants a comparable young, controllable bat as a return for Julio, Myers fits that profile. I'd think he'd only fit IF we were able to extend control over him - whether at market value or not. He just comes to mind as the only one of those players that might be "available" if you're looking at a group that probably consists of...

Myers, Piscotty, Betts, Schwarber, ???

There might be a couple other guys that fit that mold, but I get the feeling that those are players with comparable value from Coppy's perspective.

 

[DirkPiggler]

Nobody in the Dodgers' front office or ours "projected" Olivera to flop either.

I think this is one of the times when Coppy's being forthright with the press when he says "the days of us trading players like Julio for prospects are over".

I don't want "projectable" kids in return for the guy who's probably been our most valuable trading chip (including Freeman) all along. If you trade Teheran, you simply can't miss. Missing would set the rebuild back significantly. If you trade him for prospects, they have to be absolute top-shelf prospects, and multiple ones - Benintendi simply isn't one.

FWIW, here's the kinds of deals I think you have to get to move him...

Texas - Gallo and Ryan Cordell or Profar, Cordell, and Travis Demeritte

Boston - Devers, Anderson Espinoza, and Chavis or Benintendi, Espinoza, and Chavis

Houston - Bregman and Derek Fisher

Someone I'd want to talk to if I were Coppy is A. J. Preller. A Teheran for Wil Myers swap (with a 72 hour window to work out an extension) would make a lot of sense IMO. Julio would be a monster in that park where the fly ball tendencies wouldn't hurt him as much as other places. We could immediately plug Myers in in LF and behind Freeman. A Swanson/Freeman/Myers/Desmond or Prado combination would be awfully tough for opposing Pitchers to navigate.

JMO, but if you don't get those types of returns you just don't trade him. Package a couple of the younger arms to go get a hitter.

Out of curiosity, when was the last time a deadline trade was made with such a negotiating window? And how does that work? If Myers and the Braves couldn't come to an agreement in the time frame would that make the deal null and void, or would the Padres have to add other players to make it work?

 

[clvclv]

Doesn't Myers have chronic wrist issues? I would need a lot more than that and they really don't have much more to give.

Just the type of bat I'm betting Coppy's looking for. He'd actually be someone I'd rather dangle a prospect arm or two for while keeping Julio personally - but if the brass is sold enough on the young guns to pull the trigger, I'd think we could keep more depth because Julio would probably get him straight up. Like everyone else, I'm hopeful that Folty and Newcomb reach their ceilings - but they're really the only two guys that we've got that could front a rotation by 2018 if Julio's gone IMO.

 

[DirkPiggler]

Just the type of bat I'm betting Coppy's looking for. He'd actually be someone I'd rather dangle a prospect arm or two for while keeping Julio personally - but if the brass is sold enough on the young guns to pull the trigger, I'd think we could keep more depth because Julio would probably get him straight up. Like everyone else, I'm hopeful that Folty and Newcomb reach their ceilings - but they're really the only two guys that we've got that could front a rotation by 2018 if Julio's gone IMO.

The Padres are about to have to start a major rebuild (although Preller may not realize it). Don't see them trading their few assets for established guys like Teheran, although i agree he would be a beast in that ballpark.

 

[nsacpi]

Just the type of bat I'm betting Coppy's looking for. He'd actually be someone I'd rather dangle a prospect arm or two for while keeping Julio personally

I think that's a better way to go. I've annoyed a few posters around here by claiming that we do not have a surplus of pitching prospects. But my position on that has shifted in light of how many pitchers we took early in this year's draft or paid above slot for (Anderson, Wentz, Muller, Harrison, Wilson, Walker, Rowland). I'd be good with offering someone like Fried or Toussaint for Myers.

 

[nsacpi]

The Padres are about to have to start a major rebuild (although Preller may not realize it).

Yup. They may have more interest in guys like Fried and Toussaint than established major league players.

 

[clvclv]

I've shared my concerns about Benintendi and his projected power before. I do not want the Braves to get him assuming he's a 20 HR guy, because at 5'10" 180 (listed) that may be a stretch. His power surge as a sophomore at Arkansas came after a summer of pretty intense strength training, so he may have already exhausted any potential gains in that department.

However, I would also caution everyone to not get too worked up about his slow start in AA, just like I wouldn't assume too much from Alex Bregman killing the ball at that level in hitter friendly parks. Andrew is baseball young - he only has two years of college experience unlike most draftees. I see Benintendi's upside as being a young Markakis, which definitely has value. I see his downside as being old Markakis but with good speed and defense. Or maybe Inciarte with a little less defensive value. Either way he's a player that could help the Braves. If he's packaged with someone with power potential like Devers I'd probably be okay with it, but would prefer more of a sure thing in terms of power.

If the Sox want to dangle Benintendi as the centerpiece of a trade at this point, he's more of a fit as a straight-up return for Vizcaino IMO. If you could make that deal and then get Gallo and Cordell, you'd REALLY be onto something and could get whatever you can for Markakis. You'd be looking at a 2018 lineup of...

CF- Smith, SS- Swanson, 1B- Freeman, 3B- Gallo, RF- Cordell, LF- Benintendi, C- Flowers, 2B- Albies

Maybe then you call Theo and Jed and see what they think about Inciarte for Baez or Contreras.

 

[Hudson2]

I'd rather trade Julio for Bregman than Myers. Myers is a 1b now with health problems. You take a big time prospect over that any day. Also Bregman is on the same timeline path as Swanson so I don't see why JC would have a problem trading for a prospect like him.

 

[Hudson2]

If be just fine with Gallo if we could get him. But the 3 players I'd need back in a deal are Gallo, Bregman, or Moncada. Moncada is still a few years away imo but is a big time prospect.

 

[Tapate50]

I was about to chime in that there aren't a lot of guys that fit with us as a trade partner because of the fit we would need...high end prospect, position player etc.... Maybe instead of square pegging this situation just be patient and sit back. Julios value is high but I'd be hard pressed to love any of those returns listed. I don't think the Sawx have the ammo without including Moncada and I don't think that happens.

 

[DirkPiggler]

More on Bregman...just looked at his college stats to make sure I wasn't remembering incorrectly. Alex never put up outstanding power numbers in college, in spite of playing in a park that favored hitters somewhat. His best year included 9 homers. The power surge at Corpus Christi this year is by far the biggest of his career at the college or minor league level. It looks like a mirage to me.

While he's a talented player, I don't see him being the power bat we're looking for either. If we were light on shortstops/ middle infielders I'd be fine with taking him, but I see him as being at best an equivalent player to Swanson. The only way I'd want him is if we used Albies and/or Swanson in a deal to pick up a comparable player at another position.

 

[clvclv]

I was about to chime in that there aren't a lot of guys that fit with us as a trade partner because of the fit we would need...high end prospect, position player etc.... Maybe instead of square pegging this situation just be patient and sit back. Julios value is high but I'd be hard pressed to love any of those returns listed. I don't think the Sawx have the ammo without including Moncada and I don't think that happens.

This has been my feeling all along - I wouldn't trade him unless the return knocked my socks off - his contract is just too good and won't ever be untradeable unless he blows out. There's just too much uncertainty in projecting any of the young arms to turn into him (even though we have a ton of them). Just think you have to be able to get EXACTLY what you want if you move him - or just don't move him.

The only one I'd do without hesitation would be Gallo and Cordell because they'd give us the power bat answers at 3B and one of the corner OF spots. Thing is, it appears that they're far more interested in upgrading their pen than their rotation. I don't think we could get Gallo without Julio being involved. Then they'd turn into a Boston-like situation IMO. Maybe Coppy could offer Vizcaino and one of the young arms for Profar and Cordell.

 

[DirkPiggler]

The guys on SiriusXM MLB Network were talking Friday about some writer who proposed that the Pirates trade McCutcheon. While I think the Pirates would be dumb to deal McCutcheon, they do have Austin Meadows who looks to be about ready as a CF.

IF the Pirates were truly ready to entertain offers for McCutcheon, a deal with the Braves that would send them Teheran/Albies/Whalen or equivalent seems like it would make sense for both teams. Braves would get a superstar to open the new park, and the power bat they are sorely lacking. Pirates get a guy who is immediately their clear #2 (maybe #1 if Cole's injury is serious), an upgrade at SS starting in 2017, and a usable arm who could very easily turn into a quality starter. If Taillon and Glasnow are for real, they would be looking at Teheran as possibly being the 4th starter. That's the kind of rotation that wins championships.

The Braves could either dump Markakis on some poor dumb bastard (Lucille Stewart? Preller?) for a 30 pack of Frio Light, or even keep him around as a LF/ 4th OF until a deal presents itself. McCutcheon only costs $14 million for 2017 and 2018, so there would still be room to address 3B, C, and a middle to back end veteran starting pitcher.